The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[onewithhim]

Did Jesus' humility go down the drain when he said, "I am the way and the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me,"? (John 14:6)

.Those are pretty strong words, directing people to God through himself. Jehovah's Witnesses take such a strong stand. We believe that Jesus is directing our work here on Earth, so we feel that we can make such a statement as "we are the truth."

Well, certainly anyone can say anything...but what does the Bible say??

All I know is; in John 14:6, Jesus is directing the traffic to and through HIM, not through and to the Watchtower and Tract Society.

I believe that Jesus is directing my apologetic work, but I am not going around saying "I am the truth".

No, never.

And that is the problem.

People's lives are involved, so it's important to get their attention and steer them in the right direction.

I agree. But you dont steer them in the right direction by giving them false information.

So if you or the denomination you worship with aren't the "faithful and wise servant" (Matthew 24:45), who is? And wouldn't they be correct in pointing to themselves as the one/s who are representing Jesus on Earth? If not, then they are not Christ's servant. His people would have every right to say that they were the ones dispensing spiritual food "in due season." Wouldn't they?

[William]

[Replying to William in post #1099]
So where would you be while you are considering where you want to be?

Where I wanted to be.

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1102]

Thread coming soon. I expect to see you there.

[2timothy316]

May you have peace!

Forgive me, but I thought I had responded to the actual question, but I guess I did not.

The Kingdom is within us by means of Christ (the King) being in us and us in Him (and His Father). As has also been said, the Kingdom was in the midst of the people at that time because the King (Christ) was among them. Those who believed in Him (such as the tax collectors and the prostitutes) were entering the Kingdom ahead of the pharisees and teachers of the law (perhaps because said prostitutes and tax collectors were subjecting themselves to the King and following and obeying Him; due to their love for - and their faith in - Him).


That being said, He has not yet established His Kingdom upon the earth; this is yet to come, when Christ (the King) returns. And He has not yet done so; there will be no question of it when He returns, as every eye will see Him (Rev 1:7).

It's a government that can only been see through the eye of faith. - timothy

If that were true, then every eye could not see Him. Not every eye (indeed very few eyes) could truthfully be called "eyes of faith". But He said that every eye will see Him.



Peace to you and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Ah but look at the scripture you are quoting.

Rev 1:7 "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen."

Is this scripture speaking of the future or past?

Future. When Christ returns.

Agreed. Returns for what purpose?

May I ask what government you were referring to that you said was already established?

God's Kingdom government has been established and has been for over 100 years.

[tam]

Peace to you,

May you have peace!

Forgive me, but I thought I had responded to the actual question, but I guess I did not.

The Kingdom is within us by means of Christ (the King) being in us and us in Him (and His Father). As has also been said, the Kingdom was in the midst of the people at that time because the King (Christ) was among them. Those who believed in Him (such as the tax collectors and the prostitutes) were entering the Kingdom ahead of the pharisees and teachers of the law (perhaps because said prostitutes and tax collectors were subjecting themselves to the King and following and obeying Him; due to their love for - and their faith in - Him).


That being said, He has not yet established His Kingdom upon the earth; this is yet to come, when Christ (the King) returns. And He has not yet done so; there will be no question of it when He returns, as every eye will see Him (Rev 1:7).

It's a government that can only been see through the eye of faith. - timothy

If that were true, then every eye could not see Him. Not every eye (indeed very few eyes) could truthfully be called "eyes of faith". But He said that every eye will see Him.



Peace to you and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Ah but look at the scripture you are quoting.

Rev 1:7 "Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen."

Is this scripture speaking of the future or past?

Future. When Christ returns.

Agreed. Returns for what purpose?

To gather His own up to Him who are yet alive on the earth (1Thess 4:16, the first resurrection happens at this time), to establish His Kingdom and reign upon the earth.


Peace again to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to William in post #1099]
So where would you be while you are considering where you want to be?

Where I wanted to be.

Most himans if they're honest want to live on earth. It was made for us and we were made to live on it. Its really quite simple.


JW

[Revelations won]

Dear Checkpoint:

The kingdom of God.
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by Checkpoint » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:40 am
Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:
Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

My response:

First: The Kingdom of God was both present and available at the meridian of time when the Lord Jesus lived.

Second : The kingdom of God was then from mn due to the “Great apostasy”.

Third: It was then Restored and set up by God in these last days as clearly proposed by the Prophet Daniel. I.e.:

Daniel 2:
13
And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.
14
Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:
15
He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.
16
Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation.
17
Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions:
18
That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
19
Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
20
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
21
And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
22
He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
23
I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.
24
Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.
25
Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.
26
The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
27
Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29
As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30
But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
31
Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32
This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33
His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34
Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
36
This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37
Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38
And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39
And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40
And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41
And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42
And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45
Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
47
The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.


We should pay careful attention to verses 44 7 45 quoted above:

44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45
Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

(It should be so observed and noted that this latter day kingdom was not to be set up by man or by mans wisdom or understanding, but would be by direct revelation from God. Further this kingdom would not crumble and fail like the man made kingdoms, but according the revealed interpretation given by Daniel, this kingdom would start out very tiny, and grow to global proportions and fill the earth. This latter day kingdom will not operate in debt of any kind, but will operate totally debt free and independent and will continue to expand while other organizations will decrease and eventually fail. At some point the Kingdom of God will be joined with the Kingdom of heaven and the earth will then be ruled by the Lord GOD of Israel who is Jesus Christ. He will then reign personally upon the earth.

So Checkpoint you now have my take on this point as I understand it.

Now I would ask you this question: Do you know of any organization that could possibly meet the criteria given by the prophet Daniel in these latter days?

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #1107]
Yes.....Jehovah's Witnesses. Check out their website. www.jw.org

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #1]

The Catholic understanding is that the kingdom of God is a state of existence, just as heaven and hell are.

John 3: In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”[a] 3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, ...

Here we see that John seems to call the Kingdom of Heaven Christ himself. For he is the kingdom of God among us.

Luke 17: 20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

The kingdom of God is in the midst of you, because he Jesus, the king himself was among them.

Romans 8:10 “But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.”

And when Christ dwells in you, then truly the kingdom of God dwells within you.

And he gave the keys to this kingdom to Peter. - Matt 16: 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[d] in heaven.”

And which is why it is said of the church.

Col 1: 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

After Christ died, we are called into his kingdom, the church

1 Thess 2: 12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

But then there is the kingdom to come, in which death is no more and we have glorified bodies.

1 Cor 15: 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #1]

The Catholic understanding is that the kingdom of God is a state of existence, just as heaven and hell are.

That is a bit vague; Jesus said we should pray for this kingdom to come; if the kingdom is simply existing what is the point of the prayer?

MATTHEW 6:9 - Douay-Rheims Bible

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven