The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[We_Are_VENOM]

Yes. That is our belief and it is entirely biblical. If you would like to disprove it with scripture (and preferably without sarcasm) be my guest.

JW

Please apologize for the false accusation of not accurately representing JW beliefs.

Especially considering onewithhim has a thread properly titled "Paradise on Earth".

[Tcg]

Yes. That is our belief and it is entirely biblical.

Wonderful. Now all you have to do is present the passages you think show that it is "entirely biblical." As has been explained numerous times on this forum, it isn't the responsibility of posters to disprove the assertions of others, but rather the responsibility of those making the claim to support the claim they have made. I eagerly await your attempt to support your claim unless of course you refuse to do so in which case I'll be terribly disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes. That is our belief and it is entirely biblical. If you would like to disprove it with scripture (and preferably without sarcasm) be my guest.

JW

Please apologize for the false accusation of not accurately representing JW beliefs.

No. Please apologize for the false accusation of that I inaccurately accused you of not accurately representing JW beliefs. Lol... seriously ...Onewithim made no reference to citizenship and you have yet to present a Jehovahs Witness that said the following ...

Jehovah's Witnesses say: Our citizenship will be on paradise earth.

[We_Are_VENOM]

No.

Onewithim made no reference to citizenship

Jehovah's Witnesses say: Our citizenship will be on paradise earth.

Notice that onewithhim made no attempt to correct my statement (the one in question).

Probably because he/she understands what it means to be a citizen.

Apparently not everyone does, though.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses say: Our citizenship will be on paradise earth.

Onewithim made no reference to citizenship

Notice that onewithhim made no attempt to correct my statement (the one in question).

I am not here to speculate about what other posters choose not to respond to, I am here to respond to what posters write. Onewithim made no reference to citizenship at all, you did. I corrected you. And yet...no thank you?!

Instead of claiming Jehovahs Witnesses say something, failing to produce a single instance where a Jehovahs Witness said that thing, and waiting to see if you are corrected, it might be a better strategy to either produce evidence or simply ask a Jehovahs Witness about the point.



JW

[We_Are_VENOM]

I am not here to speculate about what other posters choose not to respond to, I am here to respond to what posters write.

Onewithim made no reference to citizenship at all, you did. I corrected you. And yet...no thank you?!

Instead of claiming Jehovahs Witnesses say something, failing to produce a single instance where a Jehovahs Witness said that thing, and waiting to see if you are corrected, it might be a better strategy to either produce evidence or simply ask a Jehovahs Witness about the point.

No, no thank you.

You can be the lone wolf here, going against me, onewithhim, and practically every Jehovah's Witness I've ever talked to during face to face conversations on this very subject.

It is a known FACT in Watchtower theology that they believe saved mankind will spend eternity with God on paradise earth, which in essence means that they will be citizens on earth, which is all that I said.

For some strange reason, you have problems with what I said, which I can only conclude that you don't know what it means to be a citizen.

But apparently, onewithhim understands what I said, and since that is who I was talking to, that is all that matters.

What is understood by two parties, makes the opinions of third parties irrelevant.

Then you say I failed to produce a single instance where a JW said that thing; yet I mentioned the fact that onewithhim devoted an entire thread saying the exact same thing that you claim Jehovah's Witnesses dont say (thread titled "Paradise on Earth").

So there is your single instance right there. Your requirement was met.

Just admit you are wrong.

[JehovahsWitness]

But apparently, onewithhim understands what I said, and since that is who I was talking to, that is all that matters.

Fair enough; I should not have strayed from my original point which was our official beliefs. The fact is that since Jehovahs Witnesses believe there are two groups of Christians, one with a hope to live on earth the other to live in heaven, there is no conflict between our beliefs and that expressed by the apostle Paul at Philipians 3:20 were he was speaking primarily to those with a HEAVENLY calling.

Those with an earthly hope remain subjects of that heavenly government and can apply the principle of "carrying on [or behave] as citizens" without entertaining the hope of being rulers in heaven. I, for example am a resident of the French republic but not a citizen. As such I have to obey the laws of the land like/as a citizen, but that does not make me one.

There is no official Jehovahs Witness statement that Christians have their citizenship on earth. Not least because we believe even those that will live forever on earth, will do so under heavenly rulership.


Do you take issue with anything about our understanding of the Christian hope in this regard?


JW



RELATED POSTS

Does the bible support the idea of two different groups of Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1022933#p1022933

HEAVEN

WHY does God call some to heavenly life from the earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p846997

Do ALL good people go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p878615

EARTH

What is being refered to when the bible speaks about a PARADISE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 32#p855832

Is there scriptural support for the idea that the Messianic promises of a paradise will be fullfilled, on this our planet EARTH?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p855568

Can the bibles promised be described as "heaven on earth"?
viewtopic.php?p=1044147#p1044147

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , THE EARTHLY PARADISE and ... THE 144, 000

[2timothy316]

I am not here to speculate about what other posters choose not to respond to, I am here to respond to what posters write.

Onewithim made no reference to citizenship at all, you did. I corrected you. And yet...no thank you?!

Instead of claiming Jehovahs Witnesses say something, failing to produce a single instance where a Jehovahs Witness said that thing, and waiting to see if you are corrected, it might be a better strategy to either produce evidence or simply ask a Jehovahs Witness about the point.

No, no thank you.

You can be the lone wolf here, going against me, onewithhim, and practically every Jehovah's Witness I've ever talked to during face to face conversations on this very subject.

I am a Jehovah's Witness and I have read JWs posts and I have never read anything (ever) where JW has said something that goes against what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. JW has asked that you prove your claim that they are a 'lone wolf' in WTBT publications. They are free to everyone and easily accessible at https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e

Your whole argument hides in what you have heard in 'face to face' conversations. Something we can't confirm. We can't even confirm if these people you have 'face to face' conversations with are even Jehovah's Witnesses. So you will have to use the WTBT to prove your claim that JW is a lone wolf, because I don't see it here in any of JW posts.

[We_Are_VENOM]

I am a Jehovah's Witness and I have read JWs posts and I have never read anything (ever) where JW has said something that goes against what Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

Well, today is your lucky day.

JW has asked that you prove your claim that they are a 'lone wolf' in WTBT publications. They are free to everyone and easily accessible at https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e

They? They who?

Your whole argument hides in what you have heard in 'face to face' conversations. Something we can't confirm.

Irrelevant, since I neither seek nor need validation from any Jehovah's Witness.

We can't even confirm if these people you have 'face to face' conversations with are even Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well in that case, I can't confirm that you are a Jehovah's Witness.

So we are even.

So you will have to use the WTBT to prove your claim that JW is a lone wolf, because I don't see it here in any of JW posts.

My advise to you is to follow our exchanges. It will take you places.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #1070]

I have been following this discussion and I have found nothing of a 'lone wolf' as you claim.

Your whole argument hides in what you have heard in 'face to face' conversations. Something we can't confirm.

Irrelevant, since I neither seek nor need validation from any Jehovah's Witness.

Then what was the point of your bringing up your so called 'face to face' conversations with Witnesses? You referenced those conversations for some reason...right? That was supposed to be your validation for your 'lone wolf' claim correct? Or are you now saying your reference to those 'face to face' conversations are now irrelevant to your claim? Because if they are now irrelevant than your really have no evidence and it's all imagined.

My advise to you is to follow our exchanges. It will take you places.

I'm not seeing any evidence of JW being a lone wolf anywhere in this thread.