The kingdom of God.

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Checkpoint
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The kingdom of God.

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:
Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

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onewithhim
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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #971

Post by onewithhim »

heistrue wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:42 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:54 am JESUS &144,000 RULERS = GOD'S KINGDOM GOVERNMENT

Image

Revelations won wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:17 am
You claim this kingdom was started in 1914 and how many of these 144,000 have been selected during this period of well over 100 years?
I do not know, that is well outside of my jurisdiction. Indeed Jesus indicated such matters laid firmly in the hands of JEHOVAH, the Father. Of course we can speculate (for example using the number of individuals that partake of the emblems during the annual memorial of Christ's death, but that is an imperfect barometer at best). At the end of the day I am content that if God hasn't provided us with such specific information it is not something we need to know for salvation.
MATTHEW 20:23

He [Jesus] said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
That said for many decades now, the majority of true Christians on earth claim not to be of that number and given how close we are to the time when all Christ's brothers will need to be at his side to fight the final battle of Armageddon, it is not unreasonable to assume that most of them are already in heaven. No one on earth can say more than that.



JW



FURTHER READING: Who goes to heaven?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/




RELATED POSTS


viewtopic.php?p=1021558#p1021558
(Onewithim)
viewtopic.php?p=875857#p875857

To what does the final "sealing" refer mentioned in the book if Revelation?
viewtopic.php?p=1023143#p1023143

HOW are the 144,000 going to assist Jesus from heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 5#p1005585

Can the Kingdom really be compared structurally to a real government?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 59#p883759
oops sorry wrong stats here are the relevant stats on JWs;
Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity. The group reports a worldwide membership of approximately 8.69 million adherents involved in evangelism and an annual Memorial attendance of over 17 million
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE 144, 000
,, lol so why be a JW today or even in the future, look at the stats ; As of 2018, the world's "core" Jewish population, those identifying as Jews above all else, was 14.6 million. The "connected" Jewish population, including those who say they are partly Jewish or that have Jewish background from at least a single Jewish parent, in addition to the core Jewish population, was 17.8 million.
so if the so called 144,000 are already there why bother to join them now..the kingdom is full 10 times over.....
[/quote][/quote]



ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

Fair question. But once you see why being a Jehovah's Witness is a very pleasant thing to be, you might change your mind about giving up on them. First of all, Jesus said that FEW would find the right path to be on, the path that would be acceptable to Jesus and Jehovah (his Father).

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13,14, KJV)


Secondly, going to heaven is not the only destination for Christians or believing Jews (who would be Christians). There are THREE destinations for all of mankind: (1)Heaven, (2) Gehenna (total obliteration), or (3) Paradise on Earth.

Most of mankind--including all those resurrected from the past--will live on the earth forever, in paradise conditions. Most religions ignore the many Bible verses that describe a paradise on Earth. Here are three of the passages:

(1) "For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....(2) The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37:9,29, KJV)

(3) "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:6,9, KJV)

So you see, the earth, in perfect conditions, is one of the destinations of mankind. In fact, most of mankind. What are your thoughts?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #972

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to heistrue in post #971]
Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity. The group reports a worldwide membership of approximately 8.69 million adherents involved in evangelism and an annual Memorial attendance of over 17 million
Wow!

Are those figures reasonably accurate(or were they when published)?



Who are the extra 8+ million annual Memorial attendees?

Thanks, JW.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #973

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:37 pm


Who are the extra 8+ million annual Memorial attendees?
They are people who are not currently baptised active Jehovah's Witnesses. They include
  • people studying the bible with Jehovahs Witnesses
  • Inactive Witnesses (Jehovah's Witnesses who for whatever reason no longer regularly associate with their congregation)
  • members of the public (non-witnesses family members, work colleagues, friends and associates, ...) that have responded to an invitation
Image

17,844,773—Attendance at the annual Memorial of Christ’s death - 2020




JW




RELATED POSTS
Is there scriptural support for the commemoration of Christ's death?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 17#p961417

Who annually attend the memorial each year?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 16#p961916
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #974

Post by JehovahsWitness »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:28 pm Hard to believe, but November is done! Didn't we just start it?? LOL!

Well, our special campaign to notify as many people as we can about God's Kingdom is brought to a close. Hopefully many people have learned that the Kingdom is a real government that will rule over the earth with Christ as King. Each person I asked if they would read the special magazine said that they would. :D
Yes and people need the Kingdom more than ever. This is our second year observing the memorial virtually, I think many forget the terrible toll this epidemic has had on people's mental health. I wonder how many people will "attend" this year?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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onewithhim
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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #975

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:16 pm
onewithhim wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:28 pm Hard to believe, but November is done! Didn't we just start it?? LOL!

Well, our special campaign to notify as many people as we can about God's Kingdom is brought to a close. Hopefully many people have learned that the Kingdom is a real government that will rule over the earth with Christ as King. Each person I asked if they would read the special magazine said that they would. :D
Yes and people need the Kingdom more than ever. This is our second year observing the memorial virtually, I think many forget the terrible toll this epidemic has had on people's mental health. I wonder how many people will "attend" this year?
Yes, I wonder. Usually we almost double our membership numbers, regarding the people who join us for the Memorial.

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #976

Post by JehovahsWitness »

heistrue wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:42 pm ... so why be a JW today or even in the future, look at the stats ; As of 2018, the world's "core" Jewish population, those identifying as Jews above all else, was 14.6 million. The "connected" Jewish population, including those who say they are partly Jewish or that have Jewish background from at least a single Jewish parent, in addition to the core Jewish population, was 17.8 million. so if the so called 144,000 are already there why bother to join them now..the kingdom is full 10 times over.....
We don't believe the literal nation of natural Jews plays any further role in bible prophecy. As a nation they are a rejected people, replaced in Gods purposes by spirit anointed Christians of various nationalities.




JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , BORN AGAIN and ... THE 144, 000
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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onewithhim
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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #977

Post by onewithhim »

To heistrue:

There has been much discussion about the number of people going to heaven and the number who will live on the earth forever. The group of 144,000 is a relatively small group that will rule over the earth, to guide the rebuilding and refreshing of the planet and living conditions here. The people who will live on Earth forever will be BILLIONS. It's that simple. The Bible says that the 144,000 will be taken out of ALL nations. (Revelation 5:9,10) Not just Israel.

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #978

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #977]
It's that simple. The Bible says that the 144,000 will be taken out of ALL nations. (Revelation 5:9,10) Not just Israel.
Why, in your view, are those verses about the 144,000?

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #979

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
[Replying to onewithhim in post #978]

The Bible says that the 144,000 will be taken out of ALL nations. (Revelation 5:9,10) Not just Israel.
In fact, the book of Revelation LITERALLY states that the 144 000 will be taken out of the tribes of Israel, and even breaks down the numbers per tribe.

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.



Revelation 5, verses 9 and 10, speaks of people from EVERY tribe and nation and language and people, purchased for God with the blood of the lamb, who will reign on the earth:

You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”



The 144 000 are a part of that 'kingdom and priests', but so is the rest of the great crowd that John sees after he hears the number of the 144 000. Note that the great crowd is stated - literally - to be from every tribe, nation, tongue and people.

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”



The 144 000 are simply spots reserved specifically for Israel (12 000 from each of those twelve tribes). So that Rev 5:9 and 10 includes the 144 000 from twelve tribes of Israel and the rest of the great crowd (from all tribes, people, nations and tongues)... all mentioned in Rev 7.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: The kingdom of God.

Post #980

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to tam in post #980]
Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Is this all in all the tribes?
Probably not.
So does this mean God knows in advance how many throughout history will be 'good enough' (however you wish to determine this) to be picked from these tribes? Doesn't this point to fate or predestination?
Otherwise, one would expect him not to be able to pinpoint such a specific number, no?

That is, assuming this 144K isn't specific, but symbolic in a way. If it's not specific, then the total doesn't really matter in this discussion. (or one could argue in any other discussion). God may not be a mathematician, specifically, but if anything God says (or is recorded to have said) is to be believed, I suspect these words need to be accurate. Otherwise, it's all fluff.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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