The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[onewithhim]

I hear you. But , the beginning itself was the beginning of the end. Lots have tried to guess the "Time, Times, And Half a time". No one has. No one will. As God has said.(as i believe He said) I am more concerned with living as He wants me to, than when He comes. Because He is already here(always Is).

Daniels prophecy were given for a reason and they remain a "mystery" only for those without God's spirit. Both Daniel and Jesus himself gave enough information to identify the "last days" so although it would be possible to calculate when that period would BEGIN it would be impossible to pinpoint exactly the day or hour they would END.

Well , I know I am not without God's spirit. He has made Himself clear, as He chose. I think you reach to far to decide who has it.

JehovahsWitness is not, I would venture to say, saying that you are without God's Spirit. I think that was a general statement. None of us are to judge other individuals.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 337 by Checkpoint]

Well I was talking about the government. Hope that clears that up.

Good day to you,

JW

The kingdom has a government, yes, which presently rules in the midst of its enemies.

That is the "now" I mentioned.

The "not yet" aspect will come when Kitg Jesus returns .

You are correct. Jesus rules now, but not over the whole earth. He is preparing his people for the new beginning---Paradise on Earth---and guiding them to tell others about this good news.

His government has been ruling in the midst of its enemies for 2000 years, not just since 1914.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 366 by onewithhim]

I believe that Jesus was referring to the time after Armageddon when God's will will be done as it is in heaven---that is, completely, with no aberrations. That is when the Kingdom can truly be said to have come.

According to that definition, this can only be after the millennium.

See Revelation 20:1-3; 7-9.

[brianbbs67]

I hear you. But , the beginning itself was the beginning of the end. Lots have tried to guess the "Time, Times, And Half a time". No one has. No one will. As God has said.(as i believe He said) I am more concerned with living as He wants me to, than when He comes. Because He is already here(always Is).

Daniels prophecy were given for a reason and they remain a "mystery" only for those without God's spirit. Both Daniel and Jesus himself gave enough information to identify the "last days" so although it would be possible to calculate when that period would BEGIN it would be impossible to pinpoint exactly the day or hour they would END.

Well , I know I am not without God's spirit. He has made Himself clear, as He chose. I think you reach to far to decide who has it.

JehovahsWitness is not, I would venture to say, saying that you are without God's Spirit. I think that was a general statement. None of us are to judge other individuals.

I would hope so.

[showme]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

The "kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3:2). It is in the hear and now, and is power and spirit. The "kingdom of God" is behind the door, and one must wait for the judgment of God, such as the "awesome day of the LORD", to realize that transformation, whereas there will be a new king ruling from Jerusalem, and he will rule the nations (Gentiles) with a "rod of iron". (Revelation 19:15)

The present ruler of the world "has nothing in me" says Yeshua. The present rulers, the horns of the 8 heads of the beast (Revelation 17:11), get their "authority from the "dragon" (Rev 13:4), and the daughters of Babylon sit on their shoulders. The daughters of Babylon would include the Roman church, who sits upon the shoulders of Rome, and her daughters, the Protestant churches. Their gospel is not the gospel of the kingdom, but the false gospel of grace, preached by the false prophet Paul, who is dead, yet whose "unclean spirit" leads the kings of the whole world (Revelation 16:13) to the "war of the great day of God". (Rev 16:14) That day appears to be upon us. (Matthew 24:33)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 337 by Checkpoint]

Well I was talking about the government. Hope that clears that up.

Good day to you,

JW

The kingdom has a government, yes, which presently rules in the midst of its enemies.

That is the "now" I mentioned.

The "not yet" aspect will come when Kitg Jesus returns .

You are correct. Jesus rules now, but not over the whole earth. He is preparing his people for the new beginning---Paradise on Earth---and guiding them to tell others about this good news.

His government has been ruling in the midst of its enemies for 2000 years, not just since 1914.

Are you taking into consideration that since the earth has not seen, yet, the promises fulfilled that the Kingdom will provide, it must not have been completely set up over the planet as the Scriptures state will happen?

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." (Daniel 2:44, KJV)

The passage that describes Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the great idol shows that the Kingdom will be set up over the Earth in the days that are associated with the feet of the idol. (Daniel 2:28-44)

This is after the Roman empire, which appeared as the fourth kingdom represented by the image's legs. The feet represents those governments that sprang off of the Roman Empire after its collapse, including the British and American governments. If one were to research the histories of these governments they could see that they could, indeed, say they extended from Roman times.

So, no, the Kingdom hasn't been ruling since the first century. If you want to know how we can tell that 1914 was a significant year, perhaps more research is a good idea. I can't believe that none of the links that Jehovah'sWitness supplied on these threads have been able to provide acceptable information to answer your misapprehensions.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 366 by onewithhim]

I believe that Jesus was referring to the time after Armageddon when God's will will be done as it is in heaven---that is, completely, with no aberrations. That is when the Kingdom can truly be said to have come.

According to that definition, this can only be after the millennium.

See Revelation 20:1-3; 7-9.

True, it will be at the very end of the Millennium that humans will have achieved complete perfection. But it will be DURING the Millennium that the dead will come back and the earth brought back to its pristine state, as created by God in the beginning. (What do you think the Millennium will be for?)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 366 by onewithhim]

I believe that Jesus was referring to the time after Armageddon when God's will will be done as it is in heaven---that is, completely, with no aberrations. That is when the Kingdom can truly be said to have come.

According to that definition, this can only be after the millennium.

See Revelation 20:1-3; 7-9.

True, it will be at the very end of the Millennium that humans will have achieved complete perfection. But it will be DURING the Millennium that the dead will come back and the earth brought back to its pristine state, as created by God in the beginning. (What do you think the Millennium will be for?)

Thanks for these exchanges.

The dead "come back", not during but "at the very end of the Millennium".

See Revelation 20:11-15.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 375 by onewithhim]


"True, it will be at the very end of the Millennium that humans will have achieved complete perfection. But it will be DURING the Millennium that the dead will come back and the earth brought back to its pristine state, as created by God in the beginning. (What do you think the Millennium will be for?)"

Which humans? Shall the humans for million other planets have to wait for dead earthlings to wake up?
What waste of time! Eternity to explore but in the middle we shall be dead?
Besides the fact it does not make sense it is not scriptural opr factual. Millions of people with NDE or OBE have seen their 'dead' relatives who are very much alive.

[JehovahsWitness]

Which humans? Shall the humans for million other planets have to wait for dead earthlings to wake up?

Emphasis MINE

Can you explain better what you are asking here? Is there a typo or did you mean to type what you did?

What waste of time! Eternity to explore but in the middle we shall be dead?

What do you mean "in the middle we shall be dead"? Firstly, there is no middle of eternity, and secondly... huh?

Besides the fact it does not make sense it is not scriptural opr factual. Millions of people with NDE or OBE have seen their 'dead' relatives who are very much alive.

No, what onewithim said makes perfect sense and it is indeed scriptural. (One cannot speak of something that hasn't happened yet (a future event) being "factual" but we can speak of it being truthful.

Millions of people with NDE or OBE have seen their 'dead' relatives who are very much alive.

No, those people were not dead, they were "near death" (not the same thing) and probably hallucinating. Lazarus was REALLY dead, four days and there is not record of him having attended a family get-together during that time.


JW[/i]