tam wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:48 pm
That conclusion does not follow the premise, correct.
Which is the
theme song of conversing with JW's.
If I may help clarify a couple of things though:
Ahhh yes, tam. It is always a great pleasure for you to grace us with your POV.
And if I am not speaking for "us", I am certainly speaking for myself.
The 144k (12K each from twelve tribes of Israel) do not reside in heaven. They will have access to both the physical and spiritual realms (as Adam did at the start, and as you sounded like you were getting at earlier in the discussion).
Hmm.
But the 144k (which is part of the Great Crowd from every tribe, nation, people and tongue, that John saw, all from Rev 7) and the rest of the Great Crowd make up the City that is New Jerusalem.
And my point is, can this New Jerusalem be considered "heaven", considering the fact that this is where God will dwell with man (Rev 21:1-3).
New Jerusalem is not a city of houses, stone, streets, etc. New Jerusalem is a City made of people (Christians/anointed ones), who come down out of heaven and reign upon the earth (with Christ for at least a thousand years).
Hmm. There are some problems there; according to scripture, the thousand year reign comes
first (Rev 20), and THEN comes the New Jerusalem (Rev 21).
The thousand year reign comes before even judgement , according to scripture.
New Jerusalem is the Bride who comes down out of heaven and reigns upon the earth, and the Bride is the Church (Christians/anointed ones).
2 brides?
As for being redeemed from the earth... that doesn't mean they are vacated from the earth. It means these ones (12K from each of twelve tribes of Israel) from the earth, have been bought/redeemed.
Meaning what, exactly?
"The devil is in the details", as they say (no pun intended).
We know that 144k were sealed from the tribulation..the question is; what does that seal entails?
But then again, if they were "taken away" from earth, then I guess that there would be no point in sealing them.
So maybe I answered my own question.
and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth;
May anyone who wishes them be granted ears to hear, so as to hear the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."
Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
And also, it just occurred to me; Paul said our citizenship is in heaven (Phil 3:20), and it makes sense if the saved will be residing in a city (Holy City).
"Citizens of a holy city, which Paul identifies as HEAVEN".
It all flows together.