Why do we no longer keep the Sabbath?

[brianbbs67]

Show me how God's day of rest was changed by Him. I have studied Theology and read Tanakh, KJ, Strong's, Thomson, NKJ and many others. God says he does not change, why would his day? All of my study, shows that there are lots of beliefs, some right to me , others not. But, since Peter's church worshipped on the Sabbath, why are we not?

Constantine decreed Sunday. Roman church(325) approved and adopted "christmas" and other pagan traditions.

If we follow as Christ instructed, known of this would hold water. I am sure this has been covered before, but I am truly curious.

[By Grace]

Bluethread
Either way, nothing convinces me to change the Sabbath day. If something scriptural could, I would return to the Methodist church, I am a member of, on Sunday. I just can't find it. Jesus told us to keep the law and commandments which includes the Sabbath, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. God says He never changes. So, my wife and I and a few friends keep the day without a true church body. This does not trouble me. After much study and thought, i do not know why it does not trouble anyone else not to keep the Sabbath.

No one has EVER changed the Sabbath. it remains Saturday, and for some due to the constraints of 21st cnetury living, and in parallel to the work of the priests in the Temple on Sabbath, another day is perfectly acceptable. that is why Jesus stated:
Matthew 12: 5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless?
6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.� ESV

and in Mark:
Mark 2: 27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.�
ESV

Can you see that Saturday is the day for REST? but it is not our master. It is NOT mandatory for all to rest on Saturday.

Worship is different, and it is actually a work because we give ourselves as living sacrifices to God on that day

[brianbbs67]

Bluethread
Either way, nothing convinces me to change the Sabbath day. If something scriptural could, I would return to the Methodist church, I am a member of, on Sunday. I just can't find it. Jesus told us to keep the law and commandments which includes the Sabbath, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. God says He never changes. So, my wife and I and a few friends keep the day without a true church body. This does not trouble me. After much study and thought, i do not know why it does not trouble anyone else not to keep the Sabbath.

No one has EVER changed the Sabbath. it remains Saturday, and for some due to the constraints of 21st cnetury living, and in parallel to the work of the priests in the Temple on Sabbath, another day is perfectly acceptable. that is why Jesus stated:
Matthew 12: 5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless?
6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.� ESV

and in Mark:
Mark 2: 27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.�
ESV

Can you see that Saturday is the day for REST? but it is not our master. It is NOT mandatory for all to rest on Saturday.

Worship is different, and it is actually a work because we give ourselves as living sacrifices to God on that day

Priest and ministers often take their Sabbath on another day. I wonder why? I agree the Sabbath was made for us. I see it is mandatory, unless an emergency or other pressing matter which would hurt us(which are the same). I think God expects that.

I truly think it was decreed because we can work ourselves to death with no good reason. He knew we needed at least 1 day off to recover.

[rstrats]

Grace,
re: "I deemed that to be extraneous to my main point, so I ignored it"

OK, sorry. I thought you had some reason for including that time frame in your post.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 143 by rstrats]

We need to remember another scripture: 'the letter killeth but Spirit giveth life'.

All divisions today are from the letter - written as is.
We need to see the Spirit inside the letter, that which gives it life.

It is love that binds us on spiritual level, not a particular understanding of the scripture.

[rstrats]

Monta,

I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of your comments to my post #143. I wonder if you might elaborate?

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 137 by bluethread]

Your post seems to have assumed several things that I neither intended nor discussed:

Pentecost was established by the Law of Moses in Exodus 34:22ff

Pentecost is ALWAYS on Sunday because it is 50 days after the last Sabbath in the 8 days of Passover. That is 7 weeks + 1 day= 50 days.

The last Shabbat of Pesach is the eight day of the feast. However, unless you are a karaite and realign the weeks every month, the eighth day of Pesach is not always a weekly Shabbat

Please look carefully. I never stated nor insinuated that the last day of passover was always a Sabbath. The key word is IN . Therefore there is a great difference between what I actually posted, and what you think I posted.

I did not say that you said the eighth day of Pesach was always a Shabbat. I was stating that it is a fact that the eighth day for Pesach is a Shabbat. It just does not always coincide with the weekly Shabbat, unless one is using a Karite calendar. If one is using the Gregorian calendar, the only time there would be a last weekly Shabbat during the feast would be if Pesach and the eighth day happened to land on a weekly Shabbat. Either way, one does not begin counting the omer on the eighth day, one begins counting the omer on the second day of the feast, when the first fruits offering is made. Now, that might support your view, if that happened to be a weekly Shabbat. However, that would be the second Shabbat of Pesach, not the last.

However, there is no statement to that effect in the Scriptures and many do not hold that view.

The "statement in Scripture" is Holy Spirit coming upon the Disciples as they were observing Shavot, and that is recorded in Acts 2.

Unless you can find a church doctrine that says something contrary, it is my impression that there are no denominations calling themselves Christian with the possible exception of the SDAs and the JWs believe that the church began on Pentecost, which always comes on a Sunday, and that is the sole reason for Christians to have Sunday worship.

There are others who are not SDAs or JWs that do not hold that view, i.e. some Messianics. However, even if that statement is true, your earlier statement that all Christians believe that the "church" began on Shavuot is not true, because SDAs and JWs do not.

Friday evening is not the day for Jewish worship, it is the beginning of one of Adonai's appointed times. It is not rabbinic, but a Scriptural commandment.

As I stated, Friday evening was the time of worship PRIOR to the day of Sabbath because it comes just after sundown on Friday, the first hours of Sabbath. Naturally, there are other times and days for Jewish worship, the 8 days of Passover were opportunities to have a Seder. There is no mandatory time for the Seder, excepting the possible, common sense prohibition of it on a Friday evening.

No, you missed the point. The weekly Shabbat was established by Adonai as one of His appointed times. It was not established as a rabbinic ritual. Pesach and Shavuot are also Shabbos regardless of what day of the week they fall on.

Now, Sunday as a day of worship is RCC doctrine and not a Scriptural commandment.

Your opinion is noted.

However it is contrary to what I posted. I am making the case for Sunday worship because that was the day of Holy Spirit's infilling of the Disciples and Apostles in Acts 2 on that particular Pentecost Sunday. I am not being snarky, but I do not cede that authority to the RCC when it was God, Who first made Pentecost.

Never did I EVER state that Sunday worship was a Scriptural commandment. Therefore there is a great difference between what I actually posted, and what you think I posted.

The reason I pointed out RCC doctrine is because you were arguing that the concept of the "birth of the church" is universal. Even so, it is not clear that Shavuot was on a Sunday that year.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 146 by bluethread]

The reason I pointed out RCC doctrine is because you were arguing that the concept of the "birth of the church" is universal. Even so, it is not clear that Shavuot was on a Sunday that year.

Huh?
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 “You shall count seven full weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering.
16 You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath. Then you shall present a grain offering of new grain to the Lord.
ESV

Sounds like Pentecost to me

I am NOT saying that you are wrong, but in researching, I discovered something new (which is really the aim of research, isn't it?) that seemed to end my confusion:

Jews started counting the days to Pentecost (Shavuot) from the day after the “Sabbath of Passover� — so the year Jesus went to the cross, the “Sabbath of Passover� was the Saturday between Jesus’ crucifixion and Resurrection.

It was the day after that Sabbath — the “Sabbath of Passover� from which the Sadducees would have begun “counting of the Omer“. Of course, the “morrow after the Sabbath [a Saturday] of Passover“, is a Sunday (as it is required to be according to Leviticus 23:16)

On the year that Jesus was crucified, it was that Sunday, that the “counting of the Omer� began. Jesus rose from the dead on the Sunday (“Resurrection Sunday�) – which was the “morrow after the Sabbath� of Passover — the day of the wave offering, which is called the “Feast of Firstfruits� and the Scriptures say that Messiah (Jesus) is the “first fruits from the dead“ (1 Corinthians 15:23).

Counting the 50 days of the Omer from the day that Jesus rose from the dead [a Sunday, following the Sabbath of Passover] brings us to another Sunday… Pentecost Sunday!

The Holy Spirit fell on Shavuot (Pentecost), 7 weeks after the Sunday that Jesus rose from the dead!

from http://www.jewishrootsofchristianity.ca ... pentecost/

From the same site:

Biblical Pentecost is tied to Passover based on a lunar calendar, and which falls 14 days after the sighting of the New Moon in the first month (called Aviv before the Babylonian captivity and Nisan, afterwards).

In the 4th century, the Church abandoned the date of Passover established by God in Scripture [which was based on the sighting of the New Moon on a lunar calendar (354 days)] – in favour of a fixed solar calendar of 365 days. Their reasons for doing so were much the same as the reasons for the Jew’s adoption of the ‘fixed’ Jewish Calendar— so that the dates of all the holidays were known in advance.

That is all an explanation of the difference, but in reality, is there a significant difference upon the observance of a particular day for Gentile believers? I say no.

Using the same principle as Jesus said when he stated that the Sabbath is not the lord over man, but that man is lord of the Sabbath, Peter stated in Acts 15:

"8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.�

Then Simeon dittoed the same in Acts 15:20 " 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.�

So as long as we do not impose out view upon the Messianic Jews (as an example) and we BOTH observe the same religious holiday, but on different days, we are honoring the same God of the Old and New Testaments.

Thank you for challenging me on that.

[By Grace]

[Replying to post 145 by rstrats]

Monta,

I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of your comments to my post #143. I wonder if you might elaborate?

While I cannot speak for another poster, I believe that s/he may be taking a stance against hard and fast rules. That is the same lesson I learned from my research today.

IOW there is no real difference if one celebrates Pentecost on a Sunday, or on a different day of the week each year. The fact remains that you are celebrating Pentecost, and if you do it as Jew, or a Gentile, Oy Vey! IT DOES NOT MATTER. .

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 146 by bluethread]

The reason I pointed out RCC doctrine is because you were arguing that the concept of the "birth of the church" is universal. Even so, it is not clear that Shavuot was on a Sunday that year.

Huh?
Leviticus 23:15-16
15 “You shall count seven full weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering.
16 You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath. Then you shall present a grain offering of new grain to the Lord.
ESV

Sounds like Pentecost to me

I am NOT saying that you are wrong, but in researching, I discovered something new (which is really the aim of research, isn't it?) that seemed to end my confusion:

Jews started counting the days to Pentecost (Shavuot) from the day after the “Sabbath of Passover� — so the year Jesus went to the cross, the “Sabbath of Passover� was the Saturday between Jesus’ crucifixion and Resurrection.

It was the day after that Sabbath — the “Sabbath of Passover� from which the Sadducees would have begun “counting of the Omer“. Of course, the “morrow after the Sabbath [a Saturday] of Passover“, is a Sunday (as it is required to be according to Leviticus 23:16)

On the year that Jesus was crucified, it was that Sunday, that the “counting of the Omer� began. Jesus rose from the dead on the Sunday (“Resurrection Sunday�) – which was the “morrow after the Sabbath� of Passover — the day of the wave offering, which is called the “Feast of Firstfruits� and the Scriptures say that Messiah (Jesus) is the “first fruits from the dead“ (1 Corinthians 15:23).

Counting the 50 days of the Omer from the day that Jesus rose from the dead [a Sunday, following the Sabbath of Passover] brings us to another Sunday… Pentecost Sunday!

The Holy Spirit fell on Shavuot (Pentecost), 7 weeks after the Sunday that Jesus rose from the dead!

from http://www.jewishrootsofchristianity.ca ... pentecost/

From the same site:

Biblical Pentecost is tied to Passover based on a lunar calendar, and which falls 14 days after the sighting of the New Moon in the first month (called Aviv before the Babylonian captivity and Nisan, afterwards).

In the 4th century, the Church abandoned the date of Passover established by God in Scripture [which was based on the sighting of the New Moon on a lunar calendar (354 days)] – in favour of a fixed solar calendar of 365 days. Their reasons for doing so were much the same as the reasons for the Jew’s adoption of the ‘fixed’ Jewish Calendar— so that the dates of all the holidays were known in advance.

That is all an explanation of the difference, but in reality, is there a significant difference upon the observance of a particular day for Gentile believers? I say no.

Using the same principle as Jesus said when he stated that the Sabbath is not the lord over man, but that man is lord of the Sabbath, Peter stated in Acts 15:

"8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.�

Then Simeon dittoed the same in Acts 15:20 " 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.�

So as long as we do not impose out view upon the Messianic Jews (as an example) and we BOTH observe the same religious holiday, but on different days, we are honoring the same God of the Old and New Testaments.

Thank you for challenging me on that.

Christ said the Son of man is also the lord of the Sabbath. Not that man was.

[Pipiripi]

This is for the whole WORLD. In the Bible is some passages that no other denominations talk about it. Keeping God words, is like a child living infer their parents rules. If you call God a FATHER than you must obey His rule. As His only begotten Son has keep the Sabbath as His costume! And if we are going to live in the new WORLD, like it's written in Isaiah 66. If you cannot keep the Sabbath now!! You cannot keep it in the new world. Everything will pass by. But the Sabbath stay for internally.