Did Jesus say you must forsake all?

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Mithrae
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Did Jesus say you must forsake all?

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Post by Mithrae »

There are numerous passages in the gospels which seem to clearly show that Jesus expected his followers to forsake everything to follow him, even to the point of taking no money or spare clothes with them as they preached. It could be argued that his instructions to the twelve and to the seventy-two were particularly extreme lessons in living by faith, rather than universal commands: In fact there were even some followers of Jesus such as Mary and Martha of Bethany who seemingly continued living in their own home, though perhaps this too was an extreme case rather than universal model. But even that example - a household which was apparently open for thirteen men to use and stay in whenever they passed through the town - does not seem to bear much resemblance to how Christianity is commonly perceived and practiced today.
  • Mark 8:34 And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 35 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. 36 For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul? 37 For what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels. 9:1 And Jesus was saying to them, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.â€�


    Luke 14:25 Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27 Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ 31 Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. 33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
    34 “Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? 35 It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.�


    Matthew 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
    22 “The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
    24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

    25 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
These are just a few of the passages in which Jesus' teaching to forsake all seem to be clearly expressed. In fact the passage in Matthew seems to pretty clearly say that if you're working for money, you cannot be working for God at the same time! It's an extreme and radical teaching, but it does seem to be clearly and unambiguously taught in numerous different ways throughout the gospels - even some passages in John.

My earlier attempt to portray a more human side of Mithrae's life and perplexities ran afoul of the debate topic rules and was rightly moved to random rambling, so I'll keep this nice and simple:
Did Jesus really teach that to be his follower, you must forsake all your possessions?

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Post #41

Post by JasonLa »

Whoever wants to follow Jesus, has to follow his teachings. andThis also includes to be ready to give up everything for him. Another proof from the Bible:

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:17-23

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William
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Re: My own experience and what I learned from it.

Post #42

Post by William »

I have mentioned in passing way back when, that I followed through on this particular aspect of scripture when going through my christian phase.

I sold all my possessions.
I left my wife and child behind.
I carried no money (although occasionally I was given money or found it and it had its uses.)
I carried no extra clothing except an extra pair of socks, and an old coat for when it rained (which it frequently does in my country.)
I also carried a pen, some colored pencils a few envelops and stamps so I could write of my progress and send to my wife.
Also a toothbrush.

I spent weeks 'on the road' in some kind of pilgrimage testing my faith and I would say that - had I not done so I would have abandoned Christianity and GOD as well.

As it turned out, I have since abandoned Christianity but certainly not GOD or for that matter Yeshua.

The stories that I have regarding that experience - that phase of my life - are many and very interesting. Of course they are subjective so are not subject to scientific review although there is nothing to stop scientists from doing the same and seeing what results are to be found, other than their focus is elsewhere and most would likely consider such a thing a kind of madness anyway.

Indeed, what I am sharing is just hearsay anyway. Only those who were close to me at the time could verify that I did do what I say I did, and even then they cannot know the details - how I survived the experience and what things I experienced during that time-period of my life - because yes - once I understood how it worked, I eventually went back into the 'system' but that didn't mean I didn't do the same things, again, and again, and again over a period of a few years.

In a nut shell this is where I learned first hand how serendipity worked, and how GOD can indeed provide, so in that I can testify that Yeshua was correct and something else I learn was that GOD provided through circumstance but ALWAYS this involved humans beings helping me along the way.

Those human beings of course, were all connected to the system, and in that I was very aware that although I was temporarily 'off the grid' I was still indirectly relying upon it. There was no 'mana from the sky' and nor was I given the ability to rub my hands together and produce bread.

Indeed, I can testify that for the most part, it was almost always non-Christians who helped me and on the odd occasion where I did 'seek out the believers' to ask for their help, they had a very hard time giving me that help and felt as if I was intruding and encroaching and putting pressure on them simply by doing what I was doing and being in a situation where I had to ask.

Generally though, I often didn't have to ask as - like I said - serendipity arranged it that way. People would offer.

Anyway, I can at least say that it works. It isn't easy and it certainly tests you to the limits but the reward as it were is indelible. Anyone willing to go through such a thing will never have reason to doubt again, and can only move forward 'in the spirit' as it were, no regrets.
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #22]
Jesus said the second greatest command is to love your neightbour as youself, and your family is remains your closest neighbour, do you think many children wish for their fathers to leave them and their mothers? Did you know psycological damage of prolonged separation from a parent sometimes only shows up years later?
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Re: Did Jesus say you must forsake all?

Post #43

Post by Candle »

[Replying to Mithrae in post #1]

Jesus had a house in Capernaum.

The robe He wore was a custom-made garment.

He taught lessons about priorities.

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Mithrae
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Re: Did Jesus say you must forsake all?

Post #44

Post by Mithrae »

Candle wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:58 am [Replying to Mithrae in post #1]

Jesus had a house in Capernaum.
Hi Candle, welcome to the forum :D

It says he used a house in Capernaum, not that he owned it; it may have been Peter's home before he sold it, or been the home of Peter's mother-in-law, or Peter and Andrew's family home, or...
The robe He wore was a custom-made garment.
He presumably owned the clothes on his back, yes. But John the Baptist told the crowds that if they owned a second coat and knew of people with none, they should give to those in need (Luke 3). Jesus likewise sent out the 12 and the 72 with little more than the clothes on their backs.
He taught lessons about priorities.
Sure, and he explicitly contrasted material wealth against heavenly wealth, working for money against working for God, trust in self-provision and self-preservation with trust in God. If Christians don't have faith in God even for their daily bread, how can they pretend to have faith for eternal life?

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