When the Bible does not promote or condone, then what?

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micatala
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When the Bible does not promote or condone, then what?

Post #1

Post by micatala »

This thread is prompted by the often-made statement.
I have asked you to provide any evidence "from the Bible" (since you have offered that you are a priest), where sodomy/perderasty-homosexuality-Gay, is celebrated, supported, condoned, promoted, or preached as acceptable, anywhere in the New Testament
The implication is that, since the Bible nowhere promotes, condones, or 'celebrates' homosexuality, this is further indication it should be condemned.

Question for debate:

Is this a valid conclusion?

Are there other examples of behaviors, views, etc. that are not promoted, condoned, or celebrated in the Bible, but that Christians typically do not condemn?

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Post #161

Post by 1John2_26 »

Melikio, it is so unfair the way you debate. You go for the emotiuonal "poor pitiful me" aspect every time. I have many personal experiences with homosexuals that have me coming to my conclusions as well. I don't get the rousing social support you do for my personal feelings But, then again, I have not desire to join up with anti-Christrians. If "they" see that as an insult, they need to take that up with Christ Jesus. I am taking His advice. Not theirs.

Have you noticed that I have rarely (I think once) responded to Suzanne? Give me some credit sometime will you Mel? I do not preach or yell. I just present my side of the issue and protect Christians from the insidouos attacks by those aimed to harm them and their children.

(Suzanne, chill the yelling by caps and the sermons.)
Quote:
melikio wrote:
I think that many Christians need to reconsider what it is that THEY must do, as it relates to homosexuality and homosexuals.


1John wrote: That is what I reject the strongest to.

Melikio wrote:
That's your right; but I question (to a profound degree) your "rejection" period.
No you do not. You join in on the feast of denigration directed at me by these anti-Christians here. I reject teaching children to embrace becoming homosexuals. My message has not changed. I reject the altering of the Bible by caveat and by editing that is undertaken by liberals and progressives (et al) to delude and to trick innocent and beautiful people that desire to repent and leave a life of sin as best they can. I do not believe that liberals and progressives are doing what they do out of goodness. I believe that Satan is far too real in their fruits.
Quote:
Homosexuals are the ones demanding Christians change.

No; that isn't true. (Aren't you supposed to at least TRY to tell the "truth"?)
And I hav never lied. I do not alter facts to make the hedonist feel as though I am their friend. There is so much to reject of the Gay Culture as to make it completely seperated from what Christians should embrace. They do not demand tolerance Melikio. They demand full and utter surrender to everything homosexual. No way can a Christian teach a child to embrace a family and a marriage other than male-female, husband (male) and wife (female). The Gay Culture and Community opposes that with every cell in its members' bodies. You cannot or should not be denying that.
It seems that you'll say anything you want, just to have the "effect" that you believe needs to be "projected". (Not very effective or wise; truth is better than what you are putting out.)
You are the one denying immutable facts. For whatever reasons you do so. That, I cannot judge. But actions and words I can. You get all emotional to not have to deal with reality. That should not enetr a debate but you use it as a tactic for supporting your opinions time and time and time again.

What about me Mel? What about my emotional health? What about the gay men that kept coming after me when I was inexperienced about sexuality? I would say no, they would say I was in denial of my inner self. if I oposed them, I was a bigot. Now I am this new wierdness called a homophobe for thinking that people should not promote homosexualization. You gays have it made. No matter what stance a non-homosexual takes, they can be painted negatively. It's %#@#$%* creepy. The Fox is demanding to rule all of the chickens.

These homosexuals want to teach my children and everyone else's that if a child has some kind of strange feelings on sexual matters, Mel, that these children are gay or lesbian. Anyone that questions these indoctrinators are quickly silenced by Gay laws. I've never seen anything like it outside of a communist dictatorship. I am not scared Mel, oh no. That would mean I am homophobic and that all of the Queer pride parades are all in my mind. Gay psychologists have meds for me to take.
Quote:
Homosexuals have no support from the Bible for demanding Christians change.

And YOU have no such support either.
You ahve never once disproved my evidence. You just go "poor pitiful me" whenever you must deal with facts. Is that going to work on judgment day? From Biblical theology where do we get to blame God for our sins? Adam tried that he he was dealt with rather harshly. Too bad for Eve, that she was coupled to such an egotist. But men have changed not one bit from Adam Mel.
Not that you haven't made "some" moral points, but that YOU (1John) truly DO NOT have the authority to DEMAND anything (except that which you yourself are dedicated to).
And Mel. you would be a liar "if" you assert that I have made any statements that anyone is forced to follow my Biblical exegesis. I have time and again asserted that anyone should start their own religion if they do not want to follow the Bible's clear and immutable teachings on marriage and family. And of course on the non-condoning of same-gender sex acts.

None of your emotional please or mine, can change what is and what isn't in the Bible. Why do you even want to join up with anti-Christians for advice and support? Think about that?
YOU have the option of DUSTING OFF YOUR FEET, and moving along as it pertains to others; and there IS a point where YOU probably just need to do that (just as the Bible says).


NOT when it comes to loving my fellow Christians. I must show my love for them by protecting them from this insiduos secular relativism aimed at eliminating them from earth. Yes, I realize that liberals and progressives will fail, ultimately, but I am condemned by my silence when watching my fellow Christians attacked and doing nothing.
Quote:
That is what I call homosexualization.

It's more like the most "nebulous-strawman" I've ever encountered in an argument or discussion. What?! Do you believe or think that God actually approves of your every thought on this?


I am seeking God's thoughts on this subject Melikio. Your pitiful attempts to label me the bad guy fails upon examination. This homosexualization CAN not be hiddn any longer. I welcome the light Melikio. Jesus said every hidden thing will be proclaimed. I do not hide my actions behind accusations of others wrongdoings, I shine the same light on me as them.

You can pretend to believe that I am some egotist, the bad guy or whatever, but my words testify that I am presenting Biblical truth without an agenda driving any ulterior motives. Your tears do not change what you must do when you rise. Mine either. If you want to debate on emotionalism, Melikio, I can face that tactic point for point as well. Still the homosexualization of society will not like me there either.
Quote:
The Gay Agenda and its political agenda is shown for what it is. Intolerant.

There ARE some "intolerant" people; but they aren't relegated to a single side of the arguments which exist.
Bull. Gays and Lesbians have no right to label sensible people as the bad guys. Marriage and family IS a man and a woman raising their own children. It always has been and it always will be, BUT it is the LGBT Community and Culture that will not accept that. Aryan's and communists demand to run things too as the sole voice on every subject. Sensible people oppose them too.
And if you expect homosexuals to allow themselves to be dehumanized, and take it smiling, you are being unrealistic and/or delusional.


"DE" Humanized? I am not the one comparing gay and lesbain sex acts to what animals do. Again, with logic and reason and not emotionalism driving reality, it is not my side that de-humanizes humans. Especially when it comes to familes and children. It is inhuman to raise a child with two daddies or two mommies. That also is biologically impossible. Again, logic and reason opposes the Gay Agenda Mel. yet, incessantly the LGBT Culture is called the open-minded when it is provable that they are completely intolerant.
Quote:
Gays say that homosexuality has been with us for as long as recorded history. It has been rejected by society after society after society.

No, this is not true. What planet are you taking your historical picture from?
Earth. And earth history. Civilizations on this palnet mel, have dealt with same-gender sexual adherants time and agiain. History is not making LGBT aims and goals look well-supported in any way.

If my point is not valid Melikio, then where is same-sex marriage "today." It is just now being embraced by the godless communities and fringe liberal religious groups of modern day societies Mel.
And what about homosexuality is actually harmful?
The moderators of this place have eliminated my use of graphic facts Melikio. You know very well that STD's are a major problem in the Gay Community. What, isn't it now 30% of Afican America males "in America" are dying from AIDS? How the hell is that still happeing after the AIDS ravaged 80's Melikio? Because of hedonism and sexual promiscuity. You cannot hide all of the facts Mel.
Even I think that certain practices are troubling; it's just that I believe people should OPPOSE the dehumanization of human beings, merely because they happen to be "homosexual".
Homosexuals need to first understand that normal people will not be able to see things as they do. No matter what the debate aims at, it seems that Gays and Lesbians are as unwilling as Islamic fundamentalists to deal with sensible people being unable to grasp their belief systems. We are left with driving them out of decent societal interactions. When is the LGBT Community going to stop their sick sexual parades? Masking sodomy behind gay families ain't fooling anyone with even a remote understanding and experience with sexuality. LGBT Culture will rise only to the level of another odd group of people mingling with a larger and apathetic populace. If they do not tone down their rhetoric, they will be voted out of legislative bodies without doubt. Average people do not see a lesbian or a gay guy, they see a person that does certain sexual things with others. That is reality, that Gays and Lesbians seem unwilling to accept.

Yeah, yeah, you like sex with same-gendered people. Now go away. Why do we need to know about the sexual tastes of another person anyway? The issue is settled with the religious community. It is settled with the hedonists (they don't give a damn), so why the incessant need to homosexulaize everyone? Recruitment? Trolling? My personal feelings say yes. My "poor pitiful" experiences lead me to believe that that is the case. Why can't gays and lesbians just leave me and my frinds and family alone?

I looked at all the angles and evidences (and still will continue) and came to the conclusion that it is the liberals and the progressives (which includes LGBT bigtime!) and found that they are the bad guys. Not people seeking to return to a pure and moral life. The Bible also supports my evidence and conclusions.
Quote:
Homosexual culture and lifestyle is too attached to perversion, excess, cruelty and deviance.

Well 1John, we'd better also work on banning a significant portion of those living the "heterosexual" culture and lifestyle; the same list of STEREOTYPES can be used to label them as well.
Stereotypes? There will never be a Billy Graham in LGBT Culture or its Community. Christian or atheist. On moarlity, sexuality, family and marriage and more importantly repentance and forgiveness, the Christians have never deviated from the norm. Unless of course we have adulterery now a sexual orientation and a civl rights issue. I'm suspecting that liberals and progressives have psychologists claiming that as well.
(Get real.) It's a good thing that many can see that not ALL "Christians" agree with the kinds of things you are known to say. (Thank God!))
I would be more inclined to agree with Christ Jesus then Christians calling out "Lord, Lord." How does a Christian tell the Lord he married to homosexuals together? Please provide supporting New Testament texts?

Otherwise take you bigotry and homophobia directed at Christians by questionable liberal theologians and shove it in the heresy section of your Biblical college.
Quote:
Normal, decent people find the hedonist repugnant.

Uh, no they don't. In fact, some who wear the labels you listed (proudly, I might add), are some of THE MOST hedonistic people I have ever known in my entire life. Many DO wear a great "Christian" face (veneer), but they no more have control of or modesty about their sexuality, than the typical homosexual person.


Then judge them by their actions and their words Melikio. Which of course we see, you just did. Backs up my position very well. Still puts homosexuals in the "doing wrong like others'" category Mel.
Too much of what you claim is "myth", but I give you credit for effort; after all, there is something to the idea that something repeated enough times, either loses it's meaning, or is outright believe as being true.
Same-gender sex acts used to be adult men with boys. Lesbiansim takes its title from a female adult teacher that desired sex with her students. How many lies have altered those facts Melikio?

It was called pederasty. Now we have the LGBT Community and Culture screaming so loudly and so often that we believe what "they" say. Just quiet down those with ulterior motives and you can see and hear the truth. LGBT Culture has nothing or very little in common with Christain and Bible-based cultures. yet, we hear so many lies said so often about this issue that we have been deluded into thinking the bad guys are the Christians and the Orthodox believers. Instaed of just hearing those trying to deceive us, and seeing how they do it.
I'm sure you are hoping for the latter effect.


I have proven you wrong by my actions and words in these forums. I always advise that my evidences be examined by all. I am not afraid of facts. I am not afraid of going back to history to find meanings for washed over concepts lied about in our modern society.

Mel, it is so hard to debate you because whenever and wherever you are shown in the wrong, you slink back into a "poor pitiful me" stance that place you in the victim status. And you rely on anti-Christians to do your fighting for you. Then you come out and say "yeah what they said."

I stand on my own. That is also what is my place before God. If you are OK with your place in eternity, then please allow me mine, Without labeling me with tags that do not fit.

I have come out of that excuse laden environment of "poor pitiful me, they are persecuting me" helped by my debating people on the issues. They are not going to hurt me where it counts. They are not going to change me where the truth defeats them.

We are left in opposing camps. That is also a Biblically sound place to be. The Bible promotes, condones that way of living. The Bible does not condone joining forces with the enemies, just loving them where the are.

I wish I could get you out of your persecution complex. It is a nice lifestyle to live out your life standing on justice and morality. I actually believe some non-Christians really will allow Christians to live unmolested. My views are that you live as long a life as you can, within a community that welcomes you and will keep you living a healthy life.

I have Christians and non-Christians to thank for that. I have shown growth on these threads. None towards the anti-Christains, other than open opposition to them always, but much from and towards
the decent thinkers that dwell here. If Jesus can be amazed at non-believers than what am I to do but see the worth of many different people. Not all but many. Jesus also warned us and threatened us if we go too far into the world of non-believers. There are limits. Nature declares that as well.

See there is room for enlightenement even still. Even provided by those that you do not support.

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

We can all learn a lot from listening.

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Cathar1950
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Post #162

Post by Cathar1950 »

You finally got around to threatening me. How I knew this was coming. Where's your club members? You guys usally work in mobs. How inhospitable.
What threat are you talking about? We have no mobs. When you say things like;
Homosexuality IS an aberration. Nothing can change that. A wall of legal protection, not unlike Israel versus Hezbollah; needs to be put up to protect Christians from this incredible attack being waged day in and day out against them by secularists and gays and lesbians…
Who cares. The type of people that beat Jesus and executed Him were lascivious licentious totalitarian hedonists. Jesus told us in no uncertain terms that these kinds of people would speak all manner of evil about us. AND, would think it is good to do so and to also go as far as persecuting us AS the bad guys…
Homosexual culture and lifestyle is too attached to perversion, excess, cruelty and deviance. Normal, decent people find the hedonist repugnant…
You cannot equate anal sex to slavery in any other way than a slave being raped by a same-gender perpetrator. Science also does not lend support for using the body orifices for things they were not designed for…
Trust me when I say that I do not believe that liberal/progressive/gays/lesbians, will move to wipe us out. They need us far more than we need them. We work and pay taxes in far larger numbers than the "Queer Community." Our culture is far more beneficial for social order and overall health. I have done away with my persecution views.
How am I the one being Inhospitable? You are being hypocritical to say the least and you sound whinny. Is this going to be another thread that will be closed?

"Reporting me?" For what? Not submitting to the homosexualization of society? My Church? My family? How typical of your side. How very typical.
I wanted to report you for saying things like;
Perversion
hedonist repugnant
liberal/progressive/gays/lesbians
aberration
anal sex

There is no “homosexualization of society”(sic). You are not being persecuted but I do think you border on the persecutor. Your feelings are infectious.

Try reading my posts instead of knee-jerking them with your emotional progressive mindset. I do not speak for liberals or progressives. They stand and fall on their own words and actions. I read what they write pal. I do not react to being led. I react to individuals.
You are reacting to your own prejudices and feeling and projecting them on us. Most of your posts make little sense and your knee-jerk emotional reactions are all too apparent.
Homosexuality is a sex act. Or two or three. I wish you could understand that.
We are not talking about sex acts, you are, we are talking about the love between to adults. I wish you could understand that.
Your lack of knowledge is apparent here as well. I have grown so bored with interacting with you. "You" should be reported for threatening me, but, I have reported you so many times i see the futility in expecting your club members to hold you accountable. I'll take persecution from you gladly.
The feeling is mutual. I didn’t threaten you in any manner while what you accuse me of suggesting you have done repeatedly by your own admission.
My friends, family and brothers and sisters in Christ will stay protected from you and your aims and goals to get at them Cathar1950.
Now who is being paranoid? I have no aims or goal towards any one you know.

With your level of iognorance about history, anatomy and the Bible Cathar1950, I somehow do not fear my day in court to defend against your charges. Pal, you do not sacre me in any way. I have too much experience with you liberal/progressives.
Now you hurl insults and emotional self-promotion
Being rid of your of your perspectives and effects on innocent people would be a blessing. I will keep you in mind often Cathar1950, as I move on (no not MoveOn) to other communication platforms on the net. I couldn't have asked for your threatening me at a better time.
You need to sleep it off. You seem drunk from self-importance. .

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Post #163

Post by Cathar1950 »

I just present my side of the issue and protect Christians from the insidouos attacks by those aimed to harm them and their children
.

You are not here protecting anyone. No one here is attacking Christians or harming children and your equating that to homosexuality is insidious.

NOT when it comes to loving my fellow Christians. I must show my love for them by protecting them from this insiduos secular relativism aimed at eliminating them from earth. Yes, I realize that liberals and progressives will fail, ultimately, but I am condemned by my silence when watching my fellow Christians attacked and doing nothing.
I think this is what some of us see as lies. You can’t back it up and you are being emotional.
You sound like the “poor little me”.
Most of what you write is not worth commenting on and if we don't you claim some kind of victory over the forces of evil. You need to back off because you are projecting your desires for domination and rule onto others.

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Re: To Each His Own

Post #164

Post by Suzanne »

melikio wrote:
I have not argued with GOD, and I have not questioned God, I just have believed God IS!!! GOD.
I have done the same (at times); I cannot claim that I've never been angry with God, or skeptical about His very existence.
YOU MEL WROTE;
(at times);

This says YOU HAVE doubted AT times. THAAT GOD is.. GOD, and there is no other GOD,

I would be willing and able to say that is WHAT SEPERATES ME FROM YOU. YOUR DOUBTING THAT GOD ALMIGHTY WAS IS AND ALWAYS will be THE ONLY GOD CREATOR OF ALL THINGS MADE THAT HAS EVER BEEN MADE IS MADE AND WILL BE MADE LONG AFTER YOU AND I ARE NOT HERE TO BE SEEN ANYMORE IN THIS FLESH AND BLOOD BODY> BECAUSE YOU SEE MEL. THAT THE SOUL of MAN IS WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN MAN TO MAKE HIM A LIVING BREATHING WALKING TALKING MAN ON THIS EARTH IN THE FIRST PLACE.. MY DICTIONARY SAYS THAT THE SOUL OF US IS SPIRIT. PLEASE do not make me EXPLAIN JESUS CHRIST AND HIS ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE TO YOU. JUST READ WHAT THE LORD HAS HAD WRITTEN FOR YOU AS WELL AS HE HAS HAD IT WRITTEN FOR ALL HIS PEOPLE >>>>>>

THE JUST LIVE FAITH.. MY FAITH IN MY LORD AND SAVIOR HAS f gotten me THROUGH MUCH IN MY ADULT LIFE. BEGINNING FROM MY BIRTH IN THE REALITY GOD WAS THERE!!!!!! GUIDING AND LEADING THE HANDS OF THE ONE THAT BROUGHT ME INTO THIS WORLD > AND from that point on I HAVE been ON A ROAD TO GET BACK from where I have come from.

THE ANSWER TO THAT. is IN ECCl. and also IN REV. 22: and IT ALL HAS been WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE BOOK OF BOOKS THAT HE HAS GIVEN TO US ALL TO HAVE TO LIVE BY LEARN OF HIM, US, AND THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD HE SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO SAVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I CANNOT help but GIVE A SHOUT TO THE LORD< AND GIVE HIM GLORY, WORSHIP and PRAISES TO HIM.... HALLALUYAH!!!! TO BAD YOU CANNOT JOIN ME IN THIS .. UNLESS OF COURSE YOU GET THE SAME INNER JOY I HAVE BECAUSE OF KNOWING HIM ...
If one thinks, I find it hard to see how they couldn't have serious doubts and/or disagreements with God (and the many who CLAIM to represent Him and His will).
I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW AND WHY people have DOUBTS ABOUT THE TRUTH OF GOD , HIS SON, HIS WORD, HIS BOOK HE HAS HAD WRITTEN.. I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS..

I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DOUBT GOD IS!!!! MY CREATOR!!! THE ONE WHOM HAAS GIVEN ME LIFE TO LIVE HERE AND NOW!!

BUT!!!!!!!!!! i have through my life had my doubts about my prayers being answered when I pray or God giving me what I ask for. I cannot doubt GOD and His FAITHFULNESS to all HE HAS said and done for me anymore. and this is because I have had proof of His power He has had in my life all along.. and it is because of this FAITH I HAVE HAD IN MY LORD GOD ALMIGHTY . FAITH!!!!!!! , HOPE!!!!!!!!!! and LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!! the GREATEST of these THREE is LOVE!!!!!!!!! I could have the gifts of prophecy, healing, discernment, I COULD ASK FOR and have EVERY GIFT that is available to me as a BELIEVER IN THE GOSPEL.. BUT the GREATEST GIFT THAT ANY CHRISTIAN CAN ever have that COMES FROM THE FATHER GOD. is HIS LOVE. that HE HAS already SHOWN and GIVEN TO ME AS ONE OF HIS OWN.. IF I DID NOT HAVE HIS LOVE in the beginning then I would not have the GIFT OF THAT LOVE TO GIVE either..

When anyone can grasp this TRUTH .. welll to bad that so many people have not grasped it..

IT IS NEVER TO LATE TO GET AND HAVE UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S REALITY AND TRUTH for whosoever is willing to BELIEVE that JESUS is the only begotten SON OF GOD and confess HIM with their mouth and with this they can RECIEVE all He has PROMISED to GIVE . INCLUDING HIS BAPTISM OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM..

I ASK YOU MEL?????? HOW DOES A CHRISTIAN ,,, THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN, TEACH ABOUT, TESTIFIES TO, THIS GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL OF the DEATH, BURIEL, AND RESURRECTION OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WE CALL JESUS the CHRIST THAT CAME IN THE FLESH HAS SUFFERED DIED TO BE THAT ONCE FOR ALL SACRIFICE, THE NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES THAT MAKES NATIONS(PEOPLES) TREMBLE FLEE JUST AT THE MENTION OF HIS NAME JESUS CHRIST BUT the NAAME OF JEHOVAH IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED IN SOME CULTURES!!!! WHAT IS THIS BOOK OF BOOKS that HAS and OLD TESTAMENT* (TESTIMONY*) NEW TESTAMENT*(TESTIMONY*) and THEN A BOOK THAT IS CALLED REVELATION*( REVEALING OF SOMETHING OR SOMEONE.*)

SO what is it that all that TESTIFY TO THIS LIVING GOD THAT WE AS BELIEVERS CHRISTIANS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST JESUS, WE DO CALL LORD AND SAVIOR. DO WE HAVE THIS FAITH WITHIN OUR HEARTS . DO WE BELIEVE IN THIS WORD THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN SO MANY YEARS EONS AGO BY MEN THAT NONE OF US ONLY KNOW AS MOSES SONG OF MOSES, JOSEPH, JOB, ISAIAH, SONG OF SOLOMON, DANIEL, HOW ABOUT RUTH, ESTHER, MATTHEW The tax Collector, , MARK a nephew of Barnabas, LUKE the Physician, and JOHN son of Zebedee the one Jesus Loved. having been portrayed in the LAST SUPPER ARTISTRY AS LEANING ON THE BREAST OF JESUS. Then there is Timothy, Peter, and We should not forget Thomas The one that needed proof where we get the saying doubting Thomas..

MANY HAVE been and are doubting THOMAS' WELL WE ALL have had DOUBTS. BUT NOT all have DOUBTED THAT WE ARE CREATED... BY A POWER GREATER and MIGHTIER THAN any of us MAY never be able to EXPLAIN. BUT WE KNOW IN OUR HEARTS. HE IS!!!!!! YET WE AAL HAAVE sinned MEL.. ME INCLUDED. THE POINT IS MEL..

TODAY IS A DAY you can make a CHOICE . a REAL DEFINIT CHOICE TO CONFESS Lord Jesus WITH YOUR MOUTH. and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead. You will be saved.
WITH THE HEART one believes unto RIGHTEOUSNESS, and with the MOUTH CONFESSION is made UNTO SALVATION. WHOEVER believes ON HIM will not be put to shame.

This has been written In the NEW TESTAMENT.

YET IN the OLD TESTAMENT? The last book that MOSES wrote before his death WE READ THIS. WORD OF THE LORD GOD!" I call heaven and earth against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life, that both YOU and your descendants may live. "

Then again in the New Testament. Hebrews 3;12: Beware Brethren, lest there be in ANY of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF in DEPAARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD. But exhort one another daily, while IT IS CALLED "TODAY!" LEST you be hardened through the DECIETFULNESS OF SIN. "

AND WHAT MEL!!!!! HAS GOD , THE LIVING GOD, THE LORD . CALLED SIN???? IF you do not know what SIN IS. then YOU ARE BLIND. BUT THAT would also mean that YOU STILL HAVE the VEIL OVER YOUR EYES.. BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL READING the BOOK OF MOSES.

and the VEIL HAS BEEN LIFTED THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.

CAN you understand why WE as CHRISTINS believe in CONFESS THIS CHRIST JESUS as our Lord?? IT is because HE is the LIVING WORD THAT CAME TO FINISH what THE LORD GOD THE FATHER SENT HIM TO ACCOMPLISH FOR the WORLD and all HE HAD MADE and CREATED FROM THE beginning ......... THERE is TRUELY ONLY ONE WAY....

I have a CREATOR THAT GAVE THAT I MIGHT LIVE...

and I THANK HIM MY LORD GOD ALMIGHTY FOR THAT CLEANSING BLOOD!!!!!!! that was FIRST SHED NOT JUST FOR ME BUT ALSO FOR YOU . IF YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO RECIEVE HIS TRUTH . HIS WORD, HIS BAPTISM.

ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, and ONE BAPTISM!!!!

IT IS ALL THERE. MEL IT IS AALL THERE TO BE BELIEVED AND YOUR FAITH CAN GROW FOR YOU HAVE A SEED OF FAITH ALSO.
But to each his/her own; I can't define "faith" for anyone's "insides", but my very own.
OK... WE ALL MUST CHOOSE SOONER OR LATER IN WHOM WE CHOOSE TO BELIEVE. GOD, THE FATHER THAT IS IN HEAVEN. OR men or woman for that matter that very well could be telling you lies>>>>>>

THE way to find out what the truth is?????? is to CHECK what the man or woman is saying is already in the SCRIPTURES THE HOLY WRIT THE HOLY BIBLE THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD THAT HAS been here LONG BEFORE EVEN YOU WERE THOUGHT OF AS EVER BEING BORN OF THAT MOTHER and FATHER THAT YOU HAVE COME INTO THIS WORLD LIVING I ON THIS EARTH THAT THAT SAME BOOK OF BOOKS HAS ALREADY SAID IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.

ASK yourself MEL!!!!!!! DID you CREATE THE HEAVENS ABOVE and THIS PLANET EARTH OR did GOD?????????????????? what about ALL THAT HAS been MADE IN THE PAST.. LIKE ALL THE ANIMALS. THE STARS, THE MOON, and YES THE SUN . NOT TO mention THE MAN , and WOMAN . THAT WERE MADE IN THE LORD GOD 'S IMAGE. HOW AABOUT the SEAS and THE MOUNTAINS and THE LIGHTENING, and THE FISH in the SEA.

I could tell you alot more but I believe you get the POINT. anyway IT is all there.. to be known. JUST AS IT is WRITTEN THE WORD IS NEAR YOU EVEN IN YOUR MOUTH!!!!!

WHAT REASON MEL do I have to tell you a LIE ABOUT GOD ??????????and HIS WORD???? NONE.. BUT I HAVE every reason FOR LETTING YOU KNOW what the TRUTH OF OUR LORD . IS THAT is also IN the BOOK TO be KNOWN WHY I TESTIFY TO THESE THINGS I SPEAK OF AND TELL OF ... DO I have to DO THIS??????? NO!!!!!!! I COULD SIT back and let you BE IN DOUBT. and BELIEVE THAT the BIBLE is all LIES and IT has NO MEAANING for any of us . and that we should just THROW IT OUT and not pay any attention to it. BUT IF I DID THIS then I would not only CHEAT MYSELF OUT OF WHAT GOD HAS for me IN BLESSINGS and LIFE I HAVE YET TO LIVE. and worse YOU WOULD NOT HVE HAD AN OPORTUNITY TO HEAR the TRUTH . IF YOU do not want to believe me FINE. I CANNOT MAKE YOU believe me. YET SOMEWHERE deep down inside you qill and do question and that is ENOUGH TO get you to read HIS WORD. to then find YOUR OWN TRUTH OF WHAAT IS HIS REALITY and TRUTH . THIS will then be MANIFESTED TO YOU AS BEING TRUTH. because MY GOD HAS WAYS OF DOING JUST THAT. DO YOU NEED ME TO TELL YOU HIS TRUTH. NO! it could have been another maybe. truth is depending on your age. you may very well have many more come telling and testifing to you just as I have. maybe even in a different way as spoken to you but the message is always the same. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO THE FATHER IN HEAVEN> and make no mistake there is a heaven TO GO INTO and there is a HELL TO BE CAST INTO. I like the heat of SUMMER yet I have no desire to have THAT FURNACE of FIRE FOREVER MORE THAT is DESCRIBED IN SCRIPTURE. I am looking forward to the DESIRE OF MY HEART and that is THAT heaven that HE SAID He was going to prepare for me IF HE WOULD DO THAAT for me just a sinner that has sinned just as you and all have>>>> DON't you think He can do that for you TOO??? I do.. I want the promise of MY LORD and SAVIOR I CALL JESUS the CHRIST JESUS PROMISE not
SATANS DEATH.

ALL DIE ONCE.. I will not suffer the second death.. I have been thru the fire.. and survived ... more then once.. litteraly once, and scriptually three times... i do not wish to go again anytime ever again......

CHOICE mel we all have CHOICE.. IN SAYING "TO EACH HIS OWN??" THIS is ALSO AA TRUTH. AS INDIVIDUALS it is ONLY WE IN THE END THAT will STAND BEFORE THE LORD GOD WHEN THE TIME COMES. MY WITNESS IS ALREADY MY WITNESS IS HE ALSO YOURS???????

Regards,

-Mel-

1John2_26
Guru
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Location: US

Post #165

Post by 1John2_26 »

Cathar1950, look at your little laundry list of what you are. Or, better yet, what represents you. And I'll try to make this one of my last rebuttals to you. Why should we go on like this?

All are oppositional towards Christians. Give me a break pal, I call you for what you call yourself. I just agree with your declarations. In fact, when have you ever been a Christian to support you being an ex-Christian?

I don't remember seeing that when you first started posting. Why the need to introduce yourself with such a strong "anti-Christian" statement?

Let's get on with the treatment your position deserves. I have countered it with such effectiveness, and so often, this rebuttal should write itself and take little time.

By the way, when you were a Christian, do you ever remember a sermon about "liking" your enemy?
Quote:
You finally got around to threatening me. How I knew this was coming. Where's your club members? You guys usally work in mobs. How inhospitable.

What threat are you talking about? We have no mobs.
I have listed them so many times. I must say your clubmembers are a persistent bunch. You show them facts and evidence and they say "Where's your facts and evidence." I have known sociopaths on the professional level in the work I do for a living. I go around them as associates and partners in my personal life.

When you say things like;

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Homosexuality IS an aberration. Nothing can change that. A wall of legal protection, not unlike Israel versus Hezbollah; needs to be put up to protect Christians from this incredible attack being waged day in and day out against them by secularists and gays and lesbians…
Who cares. The type of people that beat Jesus and executed Him were lascivious licentious totalitarian hedonists. Jesus told us in no uncertain terms that these kinds of people would speak all manner of evil about us. AND, would think it is good to do so and to also go as far as persecuting us AS the bad guys…
Homosexual culture and lifestyle is too attached to perversion, excess, cruelty and deviance. Normal, decent people find the hedonist repugnant…
You cannot equate anal sex to slavery in any other way than a slave being raped by a same-gender perpetrator. Science also does not lend support for using the body orifices for things they were not designed for…
Trust me when I say that I do not believe that liberal/progressive/gays/lesbians, will move to wipe us out. They need us far more than we need them. We work and pay taxes in far larger numbers than the "Queer Community." Our culture is far more beneficial for social order and overall health. I have done away with my persecution views.
How am I the one being Inhospitable?
That you can deny that the Romans were sexual hedonists shows your agenda and ulterior motives for what they are. And you certainly don't hide it now with your qualifiers.
You are being hypocritical to say the least and you sound whinny. Is this going to be another thread that will be closed?
Only because of you and a couple other clubmembers. Don't blame me for your inhospitality and denigrations. I presented actual happenings and accurate science and "you guys" got crazy over it. Hmm, sounds so familiar.

Quote:
"Reporting me?" For what? Not submitting to the homosexualization of society? My Church? My family? How typical of your side. How very typical.


I wanted to report you for saying things like;
Perversion
hedonist repugnant
liberal/progressive/gays/lesbians
aberration
anal sex


Proof that I am not going to be allowed to dissent or disagree with hedonists and those that support perversions. I listed all of those things in context and you just scream in hysterics to silence me. Mob rule tactics.
There is no “homosexualization of society”(sic).
A neologism I created here on these forums. It is an accurate definition equal to "The Gay Agenda." It is clear that only liberals, progressives, gays, lesbians, yada,yada, will allow thye debate to be framed in only their legal language. You cannot hide what is going on by trying to scare me off with some kind of hate crime charge. Boo! It don't work.
You are not being persecuted but I do think you border on the persecutor. Your feelings are infectious.


I realize that you are powerless. I now openly declare that you guys are not persecuting us yet. That day will come and pratice runs are underway. It is your camp that is intolerant of reasoned dissent. You do not even deserve a comeback. i respond to you as practice for the real world. Get some espresso on ice. I'll be leaving for a time from early August. My services are desired eleswhere.
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Try reading my posts instead of knee-jerking them with your emotional progressive mindset. I do not speak for liberals or progressives. They stand and fall on their own words and actions. I read what they write pal. I do not react to being led. I react to individuals.

You are reacting to your own prejudices and feeling and projecting them on us. Most of your posts make little sense and your knee-jerk emotional reactions are all too apparent.

Yet, it is my facts that cause the most hysterical response from you and your clubmembers. Click on the Jewish sites I linked? It is not just Christians feeling the attack by this homosexualization. If you believe in the Bible "you guys" come out of the woodwork to go after us.
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Homosexuality is a sex act. Or two or three. I wish you could understand that.

We are not talking about sex acts, you are, we are talking about the love between to adults. I wish you could understand that.


I love my brother. I love my mother. Grumpy presented that Ruth and Naomi were incestual lesbian lovers. I wish "you guys" could understand that love and sex are different things. Poor Oprah had to declare her friendship with her pal was not lesbain sex. Get a grip and deal with facts Cathar1950.
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Your lack of knowledge is apparent here as well. I have grown so bored with interacting with you. "You" should be reported for threatening me, but, I have reported you so many times I see the futility in expecting your club members to hold you accountable. I'll take persecution from you gladly.

The feeling is mutual. I didn’t threaten you in any manner while what you accuse me of suggesting you have done repeatedly by your own admission.
I'm threatening because I highlight your words and actions. If there is one thing i have realized from dealing with liberals and progressives, they hate the truth. They hate anyone with morality. The words I use carry authority precisely because they are immutable. Those that thought they killed truth get all worked up when having to deal with reason and logic to prove their deceptions are just that. I use words in perfect context from antiquity to 2006 internet. That it cause you mental pain is nothing I care about. I choose to heal myself with truth. Denial does not hide disease.
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My friends, family and brothers and sisters in Christ will stay protected from you and your aims and goals to get at them Cathar1950.

Now who is being paranoid? I have no aims or goal towards any one you know.


Really pal? Let's look at how you introduce youself to "Christians?" Shall we?

Here "you" are:

Cathar1950
Site Supporter

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Total posts: 2126
Location: Michigan(616)
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Usergroups:
[Agnostic ]
[Agnostic Gnostic Non-Dualists ]
[Deist ]
[Former Christian ]
[Humanist ]
[Jewish ]
[Radical Empiricists ]
"Former Christian? What a handshake for inclusivity and tolerance.
Quote:
With your level of iognorance about history, anatomy and the Bible Cathar1950, I somehow do not fear my day in court to defend against your charges. Pal, you do not sacre me in any way. I have too much experience with you liberal/progressives.

Now you hurl insults and emotional self-promotion


Just facts. I have dismantled your ideas by using accurate history and proper lexicon. I used to be insulted when people claimed I thought they were persecuating "me." I realized that those people had not the individual power to do so. I changed my opinion. Since researching what it is you present for your position, I have proven so much of it as incorrect. I "found out" that indeed your position was not backed up by evidence, but by emotionalism.

If I were you, I would remove the "Former Christian," and "Radical empiricist," from what you think you represent and what represents you. It is clear when viewing the definitions of both, that you have to actually be something to claim to be something. I am not a red truck, because I am not a red truck, and I have never been a red truck.
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Being rid of your of your perspectives and effects on innocent people would be a blessing. I will keep you in mind often Cathar1950, as I move on (no not MoveOn) to other communication platforms on the net. I couldn't have asked for your threatening me at a better time.

You need to sleep it off. You seem drunk from self-importance.

Wrong again Cathar1950. Christ Jesus said you (they) will know "we" Christians, by the love we have for "one another." If you would bother to research my assertions and evidences, you would prove that I am not the lair here. Celebrating sins is not loving your fellow Christian. Altering Biblical truths to alter what is and what isn't sins is as bad as it gets in the non-love department. Please, test all things of which I present. Or don't. I do not care. You are not my motives. You claim to have renounced Christ Jesus. That puts us on two sides that cannot be the same thing. You have made your choice. I still choose Christ Jesus.
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I just present my side of the issue and protect Christians from the insidouos attacks by those aimed to harm them and their children

You are not here protecting anyone. No one here is attacking Christians or harming children and your equating that to homosexuality is insidious.
I have presented facts to back up my points. You say: "Where's your proof?" That is really creepy actually. That is what I want Christians to see coming at them like a train wreck sliding down a mountain.
Quote:
NOT when it comes to loving my fellow Christians. I must show my love for them by protecting them from this insiduos secular relativism aimed at eliminating them from earth. Yes, I realize that liberals and progressives will fail, ultimately, but I am condemned by my silence when watching my fellow Christians attacked and doing nothing.


I think this is what some of us see as lies.
What? What would an anti-Christian see any differently? You certainly can not agree with me. You have made your bed. So to speak.
You can’t back it up and you are being emotional.
"You guys" altered this website to deny me the abilty to show you the facts. To use words in proper context. I have literally printed this out to show what is up.
You sound like the “poor little me”.
Oh really? When I assert that you are powerless to prove your case by any other means than by altering words. To deceive and to delude those that do not want to alter their licentious behaviors? I have rejoiced to see the kitten behind the lion-mask worn by the garden-variety leftist. It's like the world's voice against Israel, Muslims murder Israeli's for years, Israel finally strikes back, and everyone attacks Israel.
Most of what you write is not worth commenting on and if we don't you claim some kind of victory over the forces of evil.
That is just a fringe benefit. My goals is to show Christians our enemies have no authority or truth backing them up. This is what the debate is all about. Remember when you were a Christian?
You need to back off because you are projecting your desires for domination and rule onto others.
And I think that is a lie and a bluff to get me to backoff because I stop the insidiousness of the hedonist/secularist/humanist aims and goals to wipe away Christians. I believe, all I have to do is look at what you claim represents you.

It is not ad hominem attack to view the messengers beliefs, aims, and goals. Especially when they openly declare them, and they permeate and influence every assertion they hold.

Suzanne
Scholar
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:52 am

Post #166

Post by Suzanne »

1John2_26 YOU below have made this statement useing for the second time I have seen the word "HEDONIST"= it is a GREEK word for "PLEASURE" Maybe it should be clarified that THE HOMOSEXUALS AND LESBIANS. ARE ONLY HAVING SEX FOR THE PLEASURE OF SATISFYING THEIR SEXUAL URGES.. and INSTEAD OF WANTING TO SATISFY THAT URGE THAT GOD HAS PLACED within man and woman.. OR there would have never been any MULTIPLYING OF MANKIND. would there.. BE.. YET IT the act ALSO WAAS TO be MADE PLEASURABLE FOR THEM or they neither would have vere had CHILDREN THE SECOND TIME OR the THIRD . AND NOT ONLY FOR THIS REASON BUT IT IS what makes them ONE IN CHRIST SPIRIT OF GOD. IF they BOTH ARE IN AGREEMENT OF HIS TRUTH .

THE SIN is HOMOSEXUAL ACTS between MEN TO MEN and WOMAN TO WOMAN. AN ABOMINATION AND STRICTLY FOR SATISFYING THE LUST OF FLESH>> THE DESIRE IS OFF.. ON the wrong ROAD!!!!!!

YET the SEXUAL ACT BETWEEN A MAN and a WOMAN is NOT SINFUL.. AS long as IT IS IN the CONFINES AND COVENANT OF THE OATH OF MARRIAGE and THEIR BED. INTERCOURSE SEXUAL ACT. THE DESIRE is ON the RIGHT ROAD.

AND PLEASURE can and is found on both roads. ONE is TO HELL and the other is TO HEAVEN. ONE is SATANS road and ONE IS GODS ROAD..

SATAN WANTS to STEAL AND DESTROY AND MURDER KILLING ALL THAT ARE OF GOD ALMIGHTY .and HE WILL USE ANYTHING HE CAAN TO DESTROY THOSE THAT ARE the LORDS. EVEN DESTROYING THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD ABOUT SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.
WHY?????? Because OF THE PLEASURE THAT is IN THIS ACT BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE. TAKING ADVANTAGE of THAT GOD GIVEN PLEASURE THAT WAS meant for THE MAN AND WOMAN AS HUSBAND AND WIFE . NOT FOR MAN AND BEAST OR MAN AND MAN OR WOMAN AND WOMAN.

((("I do not alter facts to make the hedonist feel as though I am their friend.")) I do not believe You would actually LIE ABOUT the word of GOD .. JUST TO BE a FRIEND OR HAVE A FRIEND EITHER!!!!!!!! IF so THAT would be very disapointing ... IF WE Have to LIE TO HAVE FRIENDS then WE do not need FRIENDS .... WE CAN HAVE enough enemies BY JUST TELLING THE TRUTH. and we still have to LOVE THEM ..YET WE DO NOT HAVE TO RUN AROUND with them everywhere they choose to go or want to go do we?? yet to have friends that You can LOVE because they also know and appreciate the truth of our lord well now that is a FRIEND worth having . yet to marry a person that can be both a Friend and a PARTNER in marriage well that can be as I have always said a MARRIAGE MADE IN HEAVEN. Does that mean it will be without problems either in the Friendship of the friends or the marriage between the man and woman of course not..
LIFE HAS PROBLEMS!!!!! PERIOD!!! yet GODS LOVE OVERCOMES ... and HE can and does solve the Problems if we are able to listen well to His truth and His ways of doing things..

HOMOSEXUALALITY IS NOT GODS WAY!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!! CAN I as a person PRAY for the person that I know is in such a relationship? YES. DO I have to Go to their gay bars with them, for a night of fun??? NO!
DO I Have to treat them mean and hatefully? NO! Can I treat them RESPECTFULLY ESPECIALLY IF A RELATIVE OR CHILD?? OF COURSE. can I still love them because they are being decieved and have not been able to change because it is GOD THAT CHANGES HEARTS and MINDS and CAN TAKE WAY the IMMORAL, UNRIGHTEOUS, and SINFUL ACTS WE ALL TEND TO DO ... IF WE AS BELIEVERS never HAD FORGIVENESS for the ONES STILL SEEKING TRUTH WHERE DOES THAT put us as CHRISTIANS believers OF OUR FORGIVENESS THAT we have already had.. through the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. CHRIST JESUS.

IF YOU FORGIVE ANYONES SINS , THEY ARE FORGIVEN THEM. IF YOU RETAIN ANYONES SINS THEY ARE RETAINED. FORGIVENESS does not mean to RUN WITH THE ONE THAT CONTINUES IN the SINS.. after knowing the truth of the SIN they are committing.

I HAVE LEARNED and am LEARNING THAT THOSE THAT do not want the truth wll not accept it.. ESPECIALLY FROM A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!

1John2_26 wrote:Melikio, it is so unfair the way you debate. You go for the emotiuonal "poor pitiful me" aspect every time. I have many personal experiences with homosexuals that have me coming to my conclusions as well. I don't get the rousing social support you do for my personal feelings But, then again, I have not desire to join up with anti-Christrians. If "they" see that as an insult, they need to take that up with Christ Jesus. I am taking His advice. Not theirs.

Have you noticed that I have rarely (I think once) responded to Suzanne? Give me some credit sometime will you Mel? I do not preach or yell. I just present my side of the issue and protect Christians from the insidouos attacks by those aimed to harm them and their children.

(Suzanne, chill the yelling by caps and the sermons.)
Quote:
melikio wrote:
I think that many Christians need to reconsider what it is that THEY must do, as it relates to homosexuality and homosexuals.


1John wrote: That is what I reject the strongest to.

Melikio wrote:
That's your right; but I question (to a profound degree) your "rejection" period.
No you do not. You join in on the feast of denigration directed at me by these anti-Christians here. I reject teaching children to embrace becoming homosexuals. My message has not changed. I reject the altering of the Bible by caveat and by editing that is undertaken by liberals and progressives (et al) to delude and to trick innocent and beautiful people that desire to repent and leave a life of sin as best they can. I do not believe that liberals and progressives are doing what they do out of goodness. I believe that Satan is far too real in their fruits.
Quote:
Homosexuals are the ones demanding Christians change.

No; that isn't true. (Aren't you supposed to at least TRY to tell the "truth"?)
And I hav never lied. I do not alter facts to make the hedonist feel as though I am their friend. There is so much to reject of the Gay Culture as to make it completely seperated from what Christians should embrace. They do not demand tolerance Melikio. They demand full and utter surrender to everything homosexual. No way can a Christian teach a child to embrace a family and a marriage other than male-female, husband (male) and wife (female). The Gay Culture and Community opposes that with every cell in its members' bodies. You cannot or should not be denying that.
It seems that you'll say anything you want, just to have the "effect" that you believe needs to be "projected". (Not very effective or wise; truth is better than what you are putting out.)
You are the one denying immutable facts. For whatever reasons you do so. That, I cannot judge. But actions and words I can. You get all emotional to not have to deal with reality. That should not enetr a debate but you use it as a tactic for supporting your opinions time and time and time again.

What about me Mel? What about my emotional health? What about the gay men that kept coming after me when I was inexperienced about sexuality? I would say no, they would say I was in denial of my inner self. if I oposed them, I was a bigot. Now I am this new wierdness called a homophobe for thinking that people should not promote homosexualization. You gays have it made. No matter what stance a non-homosexual takes, they can be painted negatively. It's %#@#$%* creepy. The Fox is demanding to rule all of the chickens.

These homosexuals want to teach my children and everyone else's that if a child has some kind of strange feelings on sexual matters, Mel, that these children are gay or lesbian. Anyone that questions these indoctrinators are quickly silenced by Gay laws. I've never seen anything like it outside of a communist dictatorship. I am not scared Mel, oh no. That would mean I am homophobic and that all of the Queer pride parades are all in my mind. Gay psychologists have meds for me to take.
Quote:
Homosexuals have no support from the Bible for demanding Christians change.

And YOU have no such support either.
You ahve never once disproved my evidence. You just go "poor pitiful me" whenever you must deal with facts. Is that going to work on judgment day? From Biblical theology where do we get to blame God for our sins? Adam tried that he he was dealt with rather harshly. Too bad for Eve, that she was coupled to such an egotist. But men have changed not one bit from Adam Mel.
Not that you haven't made "some" moral points, but that YOU (1John) truly DO NOT have the authority to DEMAND anything (except that which you yourself are dedicated to).
And Mel. you would be a liar "if" you assert that I have made any statements that anyone is forced to follow my Biblical exegesis. I have time and again asserted that anyone should start their own religion if they do not want to follow the Bible's clear and immutable teachings on marriage and family. And of course on the non-condoning of same-gender sex acts.

None of your emotional please or mine, can change what is and what isn't in the Bible. Why do you even want to join up with anti-Christians for advice and support? Think about that?
YOU have the option of DUSTING OFF YOUR FEET, and moving along as it pertains to others; and there IS a point where YOU probably just need to do that (just as the Bible says).


NOT when it comes to loving my fellow Christians. I must show my love for them by protecting them from this insiduos secular relativism aimed at eliminating them from earth. Yes, I realize that liberals and progressives will fail, ultimately, but I am condemned by my silence when watching my fellow Christians attacked and doing nothing.
Quote:
That is what I call homosexualization.

It's more like the most "nebulous-strawman" I've ever encountered in an argument or discussion. What?! Do you believe or think that God actually approves of your every thought on this?


I am seeking God's thoughts on this subject Melikio. Your pitiful attempts to label me the bad guy fails upon examination. This homosexualization CAN not be hiddn any longer. I welcome the light Melikio. Jesus said every hidden thing will be proclaimed. I do not hide my actions behind accusations of others wrongdoings, I shine the same light on me as them.

You can pretend to believe that I am some egotist, the bad guy or whatever, but my words testify that I am presenting Biblical truth without an agenda driving any ulterior motives. Your tears do not change what you must do when you rise. Mine either. If you want to debate on emotionalism, Melikio, I can face that tactic point for point as well. Still the homosexualization of society will not like me there either.
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The Gay Agenda and its political agenda is shown for what it is. Intolerant.

There ARE some "intolerant" people; but they aren't relegated to a single side of the arguments which exist.
Bull. Gays and Lesbians have no right to label sensible people as the bad guys. Marriage and family IS a man and a woman raising their own children. It always has been and it always will be, BUT it is the LGBT Community and Culture that will not accept that. Aryan's and communists demand to run things too as the sole voice on every subject. Sensible people oppose them too.
And if you expect homosexuals to allow themselves to be dehumanized, and take it smiling, you are being unrealistic and/or delusional.


"DE" Humanized? I am not the one comparing gay and lesbain sex acts to what animals do. Again, with logic and reason and not emotionalism driving reality, it is not my side that de-humanizes humans. Especially when it comes to familes and children. It is inhuman to raise a child with two daddies or two mommies. That also is biologically impossible. Again, logic and reason opposes the Gay Agenda Mel. yet, incessantly the LGBT Culture is called the open-minded when it is provable that they are completely intolerant.
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Gays say that homosexuality has been with us for as long as recorded history. It has been rejected by society after society after society.

No, this is not true. What planet are you taking your historical picture from?
Earth. And earth history. Civilizations on this palnet mel, have dealt with same-gender sexual adherants time and agiain. History is not making LGBT aims and goals look well-supported in any way.

If my point is not valid Melikio, then where is same-sex marriage "today." It is just now being embraced by the godless communities and fringe liberal religious groups of modern day societies Mel.
And what about homosexuality is actually harmful?
The moderators of this place have eliminated my use of graphic facts Melikio. You know very well that STD's are a major problem in the Gay Community. What, isn't it now 30% of Afican America males "in America" are dying from AIDS? How the hell is that still happeing after the AIDS ravaged 80's Melikio? Because of hedonism and sexual promiscuity. You cannot hide all of the facts Mel.
Even I think that certain practices are troubling; it's just that I believe people should OPPOSE the dehumanization of human beings, merely because they happen to be "homosexual".
Homosexuals need to first understand that normal people will not be able to see things as they do. No matter what the debate aims at, it seems that Gays and Lesbians are as unwilling as Islamic fundamentalists to deal with sensible people being unable to grasp their belief systems. We are left with driving them out of decent societal interactions. When is the LGBT Community going to stop their sick sexual parades? Masking sodomy behind gay families ain't fooling anyone with even a remote understanding and experience with sexuality. LGBT Culture will rise only to the level of another odd group of people mingling with a larger and apathetic populace. If they do not tone down their rhetoric, they will be voted out of legislative bodies without doubt. Average people do not see a lesbian or a gay guy, they see a person that does certain sexual things with others. That is reality, that Gays and Lesbians seem unwilling to accept.

Yeah, yeah, you like sex with same-gendered people. Now go away. Why do we need to know about the sexual tastes of another person anyway? The issue is settled with the religious community. It is settled with the hedonists (they don't give a damn), so why the incessant need to homosexulaize everyone? Recruitment? Trolling? My personal feelings say yes. My "poor pitiful" experiences lead me to believe that that is the case. Why can't gays and lesbians just leave me and my frinds and family alone?

I looked at all the angles and evidences (and still will continue) and came to the conclusion that it is the liberals and the progressives (which includes LGBT bigtime!) and found that they are the bad guys. Not people seeking to return to a pure and moral life. The Bible also supports my evidence and conclusions.
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Homosexual culture and lifestyle is too attached to perversion, excess, cruelty and deviance.

Well 1John, we'd better also work on banning a significant portion of those living the "heterosexual" culture and lifestyle; the same list of STEREOTYPES can be used to label them as well.
Stereotypes? There will never be a Billy Graham in LGBT Culture or its Community. Christian or atheist. On moarlity, sexuality, family and marriage and more importantly repentance and forgiveness, the Christians have never deviated from the norm. Unless of course we have adulterery now a sexual orientation and a civl rights issue. I'm suspecting that liberals and progressives have psychologists claiming that as well.
(Get real.) It's a good thing that many can see that not ALL "Christians" agree with the kinds of things you are known to say. (Thank God!))
I would be more inclined to agree with Christ Jesus then Christians calling out "Lord, Lord." How does a Christian tell the Lord he married to homosexuals together? Please provide supporting New Testament texts?

Otherwise take you bigotry and homophobia directed at Christians by questionable liberal theologians and shove it in the heresy section of your Biblical college.
Quote:
Normal, decent people find the hedonist repugnant.

Uh, no they don't. In fact, some who wear the labels you listed (proudly, I might add), are some of THE MOST hedonistic people I have ever known in my entire life. Many DO wear a great "Christian" face (veneer), but they no more have control of or modesty about their sexuality, than the typical homosexual person.


Then judge them by their actions and their words Melikio. Which of course we see, you just did. Backs up my position very well. Still puts homosexuals in the "doing wrong like others'" category Mel.
Too much of what you claim is "myth", but I give you credit for effort; after all, there is something to the idea that something repeated enough times, either loses it's meaning, or is outright believe as being true.
Same-gender sex acts used to be adult men with boys. Lesbiansim takes its title from a female adult teacher that desired sex with her students. How many lies have altered those facts Melikio?

It was called pederasty. Now we have the LGBT Community and Culture screaming so loudly and so often that we believe what "they" say. Just quiet down those with ulterior motives and you can see and hear the truth. LGBT Culture has nothing or very little in common with Christain and Bible-based cultures. yet, we hear so many lies said so often about this issue that we have been deluded into thinking the bad guys are the Christians and the Orthodox believers. Instaed of just hearing those trying to deceive us, and seeing how they do it.
I'm sure you are hoping for the latter effect.


I have proven you wrong by my actions and words in these forums. I always advise that my evidences be examined by all. I am not afraid of facts. I am not afraid of going back to history to find meanings for washed over concepts lied about in our modern society.

Mel, it is so hard to debate you because whenever and wherever you are shown in the wrong, you slink back into a "poor pitiful me" stance that place you in the victim status. And you rely on anti-Christians to do your fighting for you. Then you come out and say "yeah what they said."

I stand on my own. That is also what is my place before God. If you are OK with your place in eternity, then please allow me mine, Without labeling me with tags that do not fit.

I have come out of that excuse laden environment of "poor pitiful me, they are persecuting me" helped by my debating people on the issues. They are not going to hurt me where it counts. They are not going to change me where the truth defeats them.

We are left in opposing camps. That is also a Biblically sound place to be. The Bible promotes, condones that way of living. The Bible does not condone joining forces with the enemies, just loving them where the are.

I wish I could get you out of your persecution complex. It is a nice lifestyle to live out your life standing on justice and morality. I actually believe some non-Christians really will allow Christians to live unmolested. My views are that you live as long a life as you can, within a community that welcomes you and will keep you living a healthy life.

I have Christians and non-Christians to thank for that. I have shown growth on these threads. None towards the anti-Christains, other than open opposition to them always, but much from and towards
the decent thinkers that dwell here. If Jesus can be amazed at non-believers than what am I to do but see the worth of many different people. Not all but many. Jesus also warned us and threatened us if we go too far into the world of non-believers. There are limits. Nature declares that as well.

See there is room for enlightenement even still. Even provided by those that you do not support.

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

We can all learn a lot from listening.

Suzanne
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IJOHN2_26

Post #167

Post by Suzanne »

***We can all learn a lot from listening.**

IJohn ABOVE

Why is it so few listen when Words are being spoken IN TRUTH?????

I agree with you I have learned alot in here also. Not to mention the TEN YEARS + I have been in the net just doing what I honestly believe I have been lead by GOD TO DO.. and all this after MY HUSBANDS DEATH. yet even LONG before that I knew GOD EXISTS.. OH well TO LONG A STORY TO get into .

LIKE A WHOLE LIFETIME OF STORY TO tell.. and I do not have another 66 years to tell it . HAHAHA

God's Blessings to you In JESUS NAME ..

HAVE A GOOD TRIP or whatever is taking you away on AUG. 2nd.

melikio
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Posts: 1715
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Location: U.S.A.

No; we aren't going to just "...go away".

Post #168

Post by melikio »

Melikio, it is so unfair the way you debate.
That is your perception, and I do the same thing you believe you need to do, say what I believe needs to be said, when I need to say it. I'm not being unfair toward you or anyone else, because you get to say exactly what you believe needs to be said (although you do repeat what seems like a bunch of near-insane ideas to me).
You go for the emotiuonal "poor pitiful me" aspect every time.

What I have been through as a homosexual person (terrible things, because of people who seek to make life miserable for gay people). Now, if you don't think that has in large part helped to shape my view of Christianity and religion, then yo haven't listened to a damned thing most people here have said to you. It looks like "poor pitiful me", because that is a reflection of the LACK of compassion in your religious view of things. I'm telling you that a HUMAN being (not some imaginary "demon") is on the receiving end of much of the crap you dish out, and you are so obsessed with your own view, that you can't even process it. It seems like something that you can't fathom any other way, but to call it "poor pitiful me". You don't have a clue, and that's all that tells me in the most practical way. BTW, enough people (and I myself) have shown that the Bible doesn't necessarily support your LACK of real compassion for homosexual people; you actually contribute to the very problems you rail against. (Think about it.)
I have many personal experiences with homosexuals that have me coming to my conclusions as well. I don't get the rousing social support you do for my personal feelings But, then again, I have not desire to join up with anti-Christrians.

I've found that many (certainly not all) "Christians" are clueless and cruel. Should I SIDE with people like that?
If "they" see that as an insult, they need to take that up with Christ Jesus. I am taking His advice. Not theirs.

Doesn't seem like "Jesus" is the source of the hateful things you relate so often to me. If Jesus is like that really (I doubt it), no wonder people do reject Him so. I don't think you are reflecting Jesus in any significant way, 1John, and the Bible backs me on that (as I interpret it).
Have you noticed that I have rarely (I think once) responded to Suzanne?
I'm not talking about that poster here.
Give me some credit sometime will you Mel?

No. Scrutiny is what your words deserve period.
I do not preach or yell. I just present my side of the issue and protect Christians from the insidouos attacks by those aimed to harm them and their children.
IMV, you preach "hatred", and fail to do most of what you claim above.
You join in on the feast of denigration directed at me by these anti-Christians here.
Many of the "anti-Christians" aren't lying and attempting to bend reality to their wills; you often do that, and it even seems desperate.
I reject teaching children to embrace becoming homosexuals.

I do not promote anything like that. I reject trying to teach homosexual-teen that they must accept the crap thrown at them, the dehumanizing memes directed at them by many of the religious and the hateful. They need to learn to fight back, in the most civil and effective ways they can.
My message has not changed.

So what; it's wrong NOW and always has been. Haven't you noticed many people telling you that?
I reject the altering of the Bible by caveat and by editing that is undertaken by liberals and progressives (et al) to delude and to trick innocent and beautiful people that desire to repent and leave a life of sin as best they can.

Yada, yada, yada. This is not the real problem here. A major portion of the issue involves the very type of intransigence represented in the quote directly above. (Typically referred to as, "closed mindedness"; if that's your goal, then SO BE IT; but it's not mine.)
I do not believe that liberals and progressives are doing what they do out of goodness. I believe that Satan is far too real in their fruits.
Satan? You just can't hear yourself, can you? Give everyone a break, 1John... it is overdue.
And I hav never lied.

Self-delusion and pride, wrapped into one single statement; very efficient.
I do not alter facts to make the hedonist feel as though I am their friend.
No, you alter facts and distort reality to promote some special agenda, that I intend to stay as far away from as I can.
There is so much to reject of the Gay Culture as to make it completely seperated from what Christians should embrace.

What's the "Gay Culture"? If it's what I think it is, then you are still wrong; Jesus, by his very actions did NOT reject anyone (John 3:16), but YOU DO (another primary reason I don't trust most of anything you say here).
They do not demand tolerance Melikio.

There are many, promoting tolerance; and it's "common" knowledge. That you cannot accept any form of toleration of homosexuality or homosexuals, is a burden that you must bear peacefully, as many others do in this world. If you think that the universal 1John BEATDOWN of homosexuals is just over the horizon, you are really fooling yourself.
They demand full and utter surrender to everything homosexual.

I just talked to a gay person last night, and many others in my life; where is the "demand" you claim?
No way can a Christian teach a child to embrace a family and a marriage other than male-female, husband (male) and wife (female).

Teaching "toleration" of sinners (treating them as real human beings), isn't far fetched, nor is it necessary to teach anything pro-homosexual to accomplish the same.
The Gay Culture and Community opposes that with every cell in its members' bodies. You cannot or should not be denying that.
IMV, YOU should stop promoting untruth; what you say cannot be "Christian" either.
You are the one denying immutable facts.
EARTH to 1John...EARTH to 1John... come in please? (Sheesh!)
You get all emotional to not have to deal with reality. That should not enetr a debate but you use it as a tactic for supporting your opinions time and time and time again.
Again, you simply misinterpret what I've been getting at. I expect that, and cannot do anything more about it.
What about me Mel? What about my emotional health? What about the gay men that kept coming after me when I was inexperienced about sexuality?
The "Bible" doesn't condone or promote that either (as far as I can tell). Have I ever claim that it does? (No, I haven't.)
You gays have it made. No matter what stance a non-homosexual takes, they can be painted negatively. It's %#@#$%* creepy. The Fox is demanding to rule all of the chickens.
More cluelessness and cruelty, wrapped into a misguided plea. (I doubt I'm THAT emotional, most of the time.)
These homosexuals want to teach my children and everyone else's that if a child has some kind of strange feelings on sexual matters, Mel, that these children are gay or lesbian.

John, what have you been reading and allowing to infiltrate your mind? That is some extreme stuff to say, and just seems neurotic to me; it's NOT REAL; can't you see that. You are expressing some radical view, that I've heard NO homosexuals I've known express. Why are you seemingly STUCK in the "extreme" view of things??!! (That, more than anything is a reason to RUN AWAY from you and what you say. I find THAT "creepy".)
Anyone that questions these indoctrinators are quickly silenced by Gay laws. I've never seen anything like it outside of a communist dictatorship. I am not scared Mel, oh no. That would mean I am homophobic and that all of the Queer pride parades are all in my mind. Gay psychologists have meds for me to take.

Homophobia is a real/established concept; read about it... it's not fully described as merely being "fear". (Get reasonably-educated, please.)
You ahve never once disproved my evidence. You just go "poor pitiful me" whenever you must deal with facts.
I have; and you display a distinct inability to properly fathom that I have. Sorry, can't change that.
Is that going to work on judgment day?

That God can see/know ALL things, give me more hope than you can imagine. Your views certainly don't remind me of "God".
From Biblical theology where do we get to blame God for our sins?

It is real/normal for people to direct blame at God; in many cases, why WOULDN'T they? It may not be "right", but it is still human. It's not YOUR place to "direct" HEARTS where yout perceive or THINK they should go. It's called "compassion", 1John. God can handle things, even millions of pissed-off believers and un-believers; let HIM do what ONLY HE can do, and stop trying to stand in His place; you CAN get in the way.
Adam tried that he he was dealt with rather harshly.

I don't know what "Adam" was thinking; you assume that you do or merely believe what you've interpreted from the Bible. Whatever it was, likely wasn't as simple as you are making to out to be. It was a BIG DEAL.
Too bad for Eve, that she was coupled to such an egotist. But men have changed not one bit from Adam Mel.
People have always been "human". Let's go from there.
And Mel. you would be a liar "if" you assert that I have made any statements that anyone is forced to follow my Biblical exegesis.
So, you cannot find anywhere in the history of mankind, that religion has been FORCED upon human beings? You don't see that that happening today?
I have time and again asserted that anyone should start their own religion if they do not want to follow the Bible's clear and immutable teachings on marriage and family.And of course on the non-condoning of same-gender sex acts.
This is merely the same meaningless assertion you are in the habit of relating; it has already been addressed (many times before).
None of your emotional please or mine, can change what is and what isn't in the Bible. Why do you even want to join up with anti-Christians for advice and support? Think about that?
1John, you really need to get over yourself. That is my plea to you. You think you have THE biblical interpretation to beat them ALL, don't you.

Here, we have a "secondary" reason why I don't do anything but scrutinize your words.
I must show my love for them by protecting them from this insiduos secular relativism aimed at eliminating them from earth. Yes, I realize that liberals and progressives will fail, ultimately, but I am condemned by my silence when watching my fellow Christians attacked and doing nothing.
Love can handle what you are worried about; even though I consider your overall view of those concerns to be radical and extreme.
You: That is what I call homosexualization.

Me: It's more like the most "nebulous-strawman" I've ever encountered in an argument or discussion. What?! Do you believe or think that God actually approves of your every thought on this?
I am seeking God's thoughts on this subject Melikio. Your pitiful attempts to label me the bad guy fails upon examination. This homosexualization CAN not be hiddn any longer. I welcome the light Melikio. Jesus said every hidden thing will be proclaimed. I do not hide my actions behind accusations of others wrongdoings, I shine the same light on me as them.

To ME, you are a bad guy (in so far as what you often mean by your words). And what you say is "wrongdoings", is what most of this discussion or debate is about. YOU want to call and label certain things as wrong, in some way that you choose, rather than that which might actually be the will of God. You can't seem to fathom most of what's been said to you, but that's ok; I'm not thinking that I can or must change you one iota.

I just want to be sure to share a perspective that you either cannot or will not give (for whatever reason/s).
...but my words testify that I am presenting Biblical truth without an agenda driving any ulterior motives.

No, they don't. But if you believe they do, I really can't change that.
Your tears do not change what you must do when you rise. Mine either. If you want to debate on emotionalism, Melikio, I can face that tactic point for point as well.

If you believe that the "human" factor (which you hardly have pinned down with full-logic and facts) is something you can minimize or ignore, I can remind you that you aren't ALL THAT (scientifically, theologically or socially). You are sharing your opinions here, and although many of them may be formulated from the Bible (as you often claim), they are STILL OPINIONS. Welcome to the FORUM, 1John.
Still the homosexualization of society will not like me there either.
Does the Bible cover this "homosexualization" you are so obsessed with?
What is it (really) anyway?

And before we embrace the whole (very right-wing) concept of "homosexualization", let's consider again the concepts surrounding what "normal" is/isn't:
http://www.gay.com/news/roundups/packag ... ernum=1194
...Gays and Lesbians have no right to label sensible people as the bad guys.
Sensible is ok, but that doesn't mean that sensible people cannot be the bad guys.
Marriage and family IS a man and a woman raising their own children.

That is the definition YOU accept; what you believe is right can't be debated. No one is going to force you to change your view; but rest assured that not everyone agree with you.
It always has been and it always will be, BUT it is the LGBT Community and Culture that will not accept that. Aryan's and communists demand to run things too as the sole voice on every subject. Sensible people oppose them too.
Some families will be in a form other than what you approve; that is reality.
I said previously: And if you expect homosexuals to allow themselves to be dehumanized, and take it smiling, you are being unrealistic and/or delusional.

No matter how you view dehumanization 1John, there is a real "limit" morally to what you and others can do to homosexual people, before the effects cause reciprocity or an actual act of God to balance things. You don't have to agree that such "dehumanization" actually takes place, for the effects to be as real as that keyboard in front of you.

And homosexual people will not just ignore the negatives thrown at them; they aren't sub-human.

As far as human sexuality goes, it's not as well-defined as you would like, is it? You cannot accept that what it is, doesn't fit perfectly inside of your "biblical" view of what that is. And that's another thing that I can't change for you; there are not perfect answers to any of this, and the extremists who propose that there is, are living inside of a fantasy (in their own minds).

You don't have the solutuions to the alleged discrepancies you point out, merely your own views, opinions and faith (just as many others do). Whatever God has said or may have said, you and others who believe are only charged with living what you believe; you will likely never accomplish molding the minds of all others to your own memes. Even if you manage to accomplish some facsimilie of the same, it won't be forever.
If my point is not valid Melikio, then where is same-sex marriage "today." It is just now being embraced by the godless communities and fringe liberal religious groups of modern day societies Mel.

Your point has some valid "concerns" perhaps included within it, but the state of "gay marriage legally" isn't addressing all that needs to be.

What many are doing to homosexuals (especially in the name of God), really isn't promoted or condoned in the Bible; what this topic is really about.
The moderators of this place have eliminated my use of graphic facts Melikio.
LOL! I have seen you abuse "facts", I don't even know what the hell you are trying to say. :lol:
You know very well that STD's are a major problem in the Gay Community. What, isn't it now 30% of Afican America males "in America" are dying from AIDS? How the hell is that still happeing after the AIDS ravaged 80's Melikio? Because of hedonism and sexual promiscuity. You cannot hide all of the facts Mel.

1John, you should start a thread about disease, and its correlation to hedonism and sexual promiscuity; neither of which are exclusive to homosexual people.
Homosexuals need to first understand that normal people will not be able to see things as they do.

What's really "normal"? Your definitions are something I would never trust. But most reasonable people realize that while homosexuality exists, it doesn't have to be necessarily approved or advocated for. Where I draw the line, is where many self-righteous people decide to AFFECT homosexuals; that is fair game to debate or oppose politically.
No matter what the debate aims at, it seems that Gays and Lesbians are as unwilling as Islamic fundamentalists to deal with sensible people being unable to grasp their belief systems.
Prove it; especially as it applies to ALL "Gays and Lesbians". You stack on more and more reasons, why people shouldn't regard the true meaning of things you say.
We are left with driving them out of decent societal interactions.

And you do not inject "hatred" into your "message"? See yourself, fix what THAT is, then move on in God's grace. Otherwise, YOU are a part of the problem.
When is the LGBT Community going to stop their sick sexual parades?
The above it STUPID! You are just stereotyping, and it's really reprehensible to imply the things you do.
Masking sodomy behind gay families ain't fooling anyone with even a remote understanding and experience with sexuality.

And you aren't doing such a good job of masking hatred either; isn't it obvious to you, that's what you are spreading?
LGBT Culture will rise only to the level of another odd group of people mingling with a larger and apathetic populace. If they do not tone down their rhetoric, they will be voted out of legislative bodies without doubt.

So you say. And I see you don't really know what you are talking about; the gays and lesbians which exist, really aren't "counted" in the way you seem to think. Get a clue, 1John.
Average people do not see a lesbian or a gay guy, they see a person that does certain sexual things with others. That is reality, that Gays and Lesbians seem unwilling to accept.

1John, What is an "average" person? And you are wrong about what others see; I know you'd like to think that's what they see, but not ALL people who are heterosexual are as closed-minded as the views you embrace.
Yeah, yeah, you like sex with same-gendered people.

Ok.
Now go away.

Go where?
Why do we need to know about the sexual tastes of another person anyway?

I seem to recall that so many Christians and heterosexuals are so obsessed with "homosexuality", that they will pry into any/every cornet to find out what someone's sexual-orientation is. I've experience THAT so many times, I can't even count them. Egotistical JERKS, whose miniscule manhood is "threatened" by the mere existence or presence of a homosexual. Yeah, that's "homophobia", and it's as real as anything else I've seen from misguided Christians and anti-gay hate-mongers.
The issue is settled with the religious community.
No, it isn't. (Realism, please.)
It is settled with the hedonists (they don't give a damn), so why the incessant need to homosexulaize everyone?

Hateful stereotyping, at its most obvious.
Recruitment? Trolling? My personal feelings say yes.

Ok.
My "poor pitiful" experiences lead me to believe that that is the case. Why can't gays and lesbians just leave me and my frinds and family alone?
Where are they going to go? Earth seems to be the only place they have to live. What do you suggest?
I looked at all the angles and evidences (and still will continue) and came to the conclusion that it is the liberals and the progressives (which includes LGBT bigtime!) and found that they are the bad guys.
YOU and none else, has seen, examined and comprehended all angles; the person who has done that is God Himself. Get real.
Not people seeking to return to a pure and moral life. The Bible also supports my evidence and conclusions.
It also supports the conclusions of many you disagree with. The argument becomes fruitless, ultimately. It's to a point where only God's providence will prevail, or even make sense at all. THe "Bible" isn't as clear as you say, especially when examined outside of the tight circle you pull your interpretations from. And just about anyone can hold that book up, and fashion an agenda from it.

It has never been my goal to convert people to/from homosexuality. And using the Bible, I CAN pursue AND support an agenda which says:

People should be free to believe and apply faith as they see fit; but that real limitations apply, as it relates to the effects of actions commited upon others.

Now, if you and others who are apt to put "religion" above people can't regard that, then no one is going to "...leave you alone...", or merely "...go away..."; they are going to OPPOSE ideas and ACTIONS which affect their lives, they will seek real "justice" and they will use the same tools you do to struggle for that goal.

Now, you and yours can be reasonable, which will lead to the same, or you can turn it into a yet greater human tragedy than mankind has already seen.

Love is the answer, not RELIGION pushed down people's throats. It won't work, and it never has; did you miss that PART of history? Has anyone managed to eliminate all "homosexuality" by:

1. Converting everyone to heterosexuals.
2. Frightening them into submission or hiding?
3. Applying a different STANDARD of Christian-love; throwing them table scraps, instead of the FEAST Jesus intended?

I don't think people like you don't want to ever really find out what God REALLY thinks; I think your head might explode. I just can't see where He hates homosexuals, as much as some Christians seem to indicate by both their words and more importantly, their actions.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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micatala
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Post #169

Post by micatala »

Moderator Intervention

Let me again remind everyone to avoid personal attacks, inappropriate personal remarks, and uncivil statements. No matter how strongly you feel about the correctness of your position, or the incorrectness of others' positions, these are not appropriate.
Cathar wrote:So you want to build walls and bomb people that you believe are aberration? You again should be reported.
Mischaracterizing or mistating another member's position is not appropriate.
Cathar wrote:Yes you have moved on to the persecutor.
Cathar wrote:You need to sleep it off. You seem drunk from self-importance.
Cathar about 1John wrote: I find that vain.
1John wrote:You finally got around to threatening me. How I knew this was coming. Where's your club members? You guys usally work in mobs. How inhospitable.
1John wrote:Otherwise take you bigotry and homophobia directed at Christians by questionable liberal theologians and shove it in the heresy section of your Biblical college
It is also against the rules to make unsubstantiated blanket statements without evidence. For example:
1John wrote:They demand full and utter surrender to everything homosexual.
Inflammatory comments are also against the rules.
1John wrote:I do not believe that liberals and progressives are doing what they do out of goodness. I believe that Satan is far too real in their fruits.
Certainly everyone has a right to their opinion, but continually labeling or implying those who disagree with you are Satanic or anti-CHristian, when several of them have clearly and consistently identified themselves as Christians, is insulting and the fact that you believe it strongly is true does not make it less insulting. It is also unnecessary as it is a statement offered without evidence and is clearly not in line with keeping the debate civil.

These comments are unsubstantiated blanket statements offered without evidence and are, IMV, inflammatory.
If there is one thing i have realized from dealing with liberals and progressives, they hate the truth.
1John wrote:You liberals need my taxes. Without hardworking family men, your society breaks down to drug dealers, pimps and "ho's" and their clientele.
And again. Comments regarding the moderating of the forum are not to be made within threads. Please PM one of the moderators.
Cathar wrote:That is all true of heterosexuality. In your case you are projecting all the woes on a few homosexuals for your scapegoat. It is pure slander and another reason you should be reported.
Threatening another member with being reported within a thread is not appropriate. If you wish to make a report to a moderator, feel free to do so. Please do not speak for the moderators.

1John wrote:Proof that I am not going to be allowed to dissent or disagree with hedonists and those that support perversions.
As long as the rules are followed, no one need fear being silenced on this site. You are free to disagree with hedonists. You are free to oppose what you feel are perversions.



A final general comment.

When the moderators close threads, one of the effects we hope to have is that members rein in behavior that is against the rules. Transporting the behavior to another thread is not appropriate. I have been a bit harsh in this post because I see many of the same rules violations that have been cited numerous times before. If members insist on persisting in this behavior, I will bring the matter of probation up with the moderating team.

melikio
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Listen to whom/what?

Post #170

Post by melikio »

***We can all learn a lot from listening.***

From "listening" to what and whom?

There seem to be a majority of believers, that think they should coerce and influence or pressure others into believing the same things they do.

I'm not going to "listen" to a person that proves that's what they intend to do. I don't want to become like them, and I see not reason to BE like them.

If we zoom OUT, just a little, it's not hard to see how much some people PLAY GOD; they believe that their biblical view gives them power and authority to mold the lives of others; it doesn't (but it's hard to convince them of that).

If I don't see someone as a decent person, why would I listen to or trust in them? (Get real.)

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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