When was the Trinity concept invented?

[polonius]

“Regarding the New Testament, trinitarian scholar William Rusch has admitted:
“The binitarian formulas are found in Rom. 8:11, 2 Cor. 4:14, Gal. 1:1, Eph. 1:20, 1 Tim 1:2, 1 Pet. 1:21, and 2 John 1:13...No doctrine of the Trinity in the Nicene sense is present in the New Testament...

“There is no doctrine of the Trinity in the strict sense in the Apostolic Fathers...(Rusch W.G. The Trinitarian Controversy. Fortress Press, Phil., 1980, pp. 2-3).

“So, a trinitarian scholar admits that the New Testament uses what he calls binitarian formulas and no doctrine of the trinity was found in early post-apostolic times from those known as "Apostolic Fathers." This would include people such as Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp of Smyrna."

http://www.cogwriter.com/binitarian.htm#scholars

[jgh7]

What about this statement:

Philippians 2:5-7

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

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It doesn't mention the Holy Spirit, but Paul does seem to affirm Jesus as being equal with God in nature/form while in Heaven.

Edit: I see binitarian doctrines were counted as acknowledged in the OP. But how is it such a stretch then to allow the Holy Spirit to also be equal in nature to the Father and the Son? The one unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. That should give you a hint as to the true essence of the Holy Spirit.

[brianbbs67]

And, really., if you boil it down, does it matter? Christ is human sent by God to save us. Christ is God sent to save us. either way, we can be redeemed. If we choose.

When you ask, 'does it matter', who are you asking? People or God? To people it might not matter yet the Almighty has a whole book to detail who He is and what matters to Him.

"Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength. These words that I am commanding you today must be on your heart, and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up." Deut 6:4-7

Because of the muilti-gods that surrounded the Hebrews Moses had to remind them of their God and who He was and how many of Him there is. The message is the same today.

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’​—Matt. 7:21-23

So does it matter to know who the difference between Jehovah and Jesus? According to the Bible, it most certainly does. Furthermore the Bible says we must be doing the will of Jesus' Father. If a person is confused as to who that is, how can they know what to do? Just knowing where salvation comes from isn't enough.

"Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,� but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead. Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.� You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder." James 2:14-19

"Now in the synagogue there was a man with a spirit, an unclean demon, and he shouted with a loud voice: Ah! What have we to do with you, Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ? Did you come to destroy us? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.� Luke 4:33, 34

So what if a person knows were salvation comes from, if they are simply saying, 'I know God' as a way of showing their faith. God's Word says such a person is no different from a demon that knows the same thing. Mankind doesn't choose to save their life by what they know, just like a demon can't gain salvation because they know Jesus is the 'Holy One of God'.

I belive you misunderstand me. I was trying to say, does it matter whether God is a trinity or not? IE, what we believe about God doesn't negate Him. He is who He is. Our following Him is what matters. Whether we think He is the same as Christ is secondary as long as we follow His way.

[2timothy316]

I belive you misunderstand me. I was trying to say, does it matter whether God is a trinity or not?

Who are you speaking for when it come to what 'matters'? Yourself or the Almighty?

“Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.�—Matt. 7:13, 14.

'Broad and spacious is the road' to the trinity. So to me it matters and apparently to Jehovah God it matters. “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah" Deut 6:4. Not three, two, or eighteen.

[bjs]

As I said before, it's just different lipstick on the same pig as it were. The cosmetic changes still doesn't cover the origin. So what if your trinity is only slightly different from all the others. All the other three gods grouped together were slightly different from each other too. They all thought there's was special, something different. It saddens me to see the old triad gods reborn over and over and over and people falling for it over and over, saying 'ah but this is something new and different'. No, it's not. The current day trinity is just a continuation. The person that decreed god is a trinity didn't even profess to be a christian until he was on his death bed. He served triad gods. This should alarm people. But it doesn't

Orthodox Christian don’t believe in three gods. As long as that is your approach, you will have nothing but a straw argument.

[2timothy316]

As I said before, it's just different lipstick on the same pig as it were. The cosmetic changes still doesn't cover the origin. So what if your trinity is only slightly different from all the others. All the other three gods grouped together were slightly different from each other too. They all thought there's was special, something different. It saddens me to see the old triad gods reborn over and over and over and people falling for it over and over, saying 'ah but this is something new and different'. No, it's not. The current day trinity is just a continuation. The person that decreed god is a trinity didn't even profess to be a christian until he was on his death bed. He served triad gods. This should alarm people. But it doesn't

Orthodox Christian don’t believe in three gods. As long as that is your approach, you will have nothing but a straw argument.

You have 3 personalities identified with worship and that didn't originate with first century Christians. The idea was not even institutionalized by a Christian. Read my comments, I never said that you have 3 gods because I know that is your normal defense. I took this into account in my argument, you're missing the point of the number of 'personalities' in your worship and you think it's something new. It's not. 3 personalities together in worship is traced back to Babylon. It was pagan then it's pagan now. Your 'all 3 = one god' is just a footnote along with the questionable 'great mystery' is a sad attempt to escape it's pagan origins. Yet a wise person doesn't fall for such trickery.

[RightReason]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

Your 'all 3 = one god' is just a footnote along with the questionable 'great mystery' is a sad attempt to escape it's pagan origins. Yet a wise person doesn't fall for such trickery.

So tell us how you became so much wiser than the overwhelming majority of Christendom?

You believe you are wiser than Aquinas, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, Karol Wojtyła, C.S. Lewis, Blaise Pascal? Such fools these men were for believing in a Trinitarian God.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

Your 'all 3 = one god' is just a footnote along with the questionable 'great mystery' is a sad attempt to escape it's pagan origins. Yet a wise person doesn't fall for such trickery.

So tell us how you became so much wiser than the overwhelming majority of Christendom?

God's Word gets all credit. Wisdom comes from God's Word and not from my own strength. The Bible says, “Jehovah Our God Is One Jehovah�—Deuteronomy 6:4. All I did was simply trust His Word and not some Roman emperor who was influenced by the old triad gods model.

You believe you are wiser than Aquinas, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, Karol Wojtyła, C.S. Lewis, Blaise Pascal? Such fools these men were for believing in a Trinitarian God.

“Wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.� - 2 Tim. 3:13

If those people truly believed the trinity to be true, they might have simply have been misled. Or perhaps they were doing the misleading? I didn't know those men personally. They could have just believed in the trinity just so they wouldn't be put to death. Who knows? The church during the time of some of those folks was much more murderous for not agreeing. That is what happens when you threaten people with 'believe what we tell you or die and be burn forever in hell'. Who knows what people really believed as they might have hid what they actually believed.

However, there are those through history that were part of the church but didn't believe in the trinity. Isaac Newton was one of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... aac_Newton

[RightReason]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

So tell us how you became so much wiser than the overwhelming majority of Christendom?

God's Word gets all credit.

Self righteous much? My question was sarcastic because of course God’s Word gets all the credit. Which is why your comment, “Yet a wise person doesn't fall for such trickery.� is so arrogant in the implication that you are too wise to get it wrong.

The Bible says, “Jehovah Our God Is One Jehovah�—Deuteronomy 6:4.

And that’s true. Though Biblical scholars agree the word Jehovah was not used – at least not in all the places that some sects like JW’s changed/altered Sacred Scripture to suggest that it did. Scripture also says . . .


“ For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,� –Collosians 2:9


“6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.� –Isaiah 9:6�


“30 I and the Father are one.� –John 10:30


“23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel�(which means “God with us�).� –Matthew 1:23


“19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,� –Matthew 28:19


“9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.� –John 14:9-11
To name a few.

All I did was simply trust His Word and not some Roman emperor who was influenced by the old triad gods model.

And it appears you misunderstood His word. As His word also included the passages I posted. His word also included as He addressed Peter, the first Pope, “He who hears you, hears me�, “Whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven�. His word described the church as the pillar and foundation of truth. His word did not say, “whatever you think is true is true�. His word said things like, “If he refuses to listen, even to the Church . . . “ Clearly, God gave His Church authority, but for some reason you reduce His Word to personal interpretation. That is actually unscriptural.

Anyway, plenty of threads about the Trinity. I was simply commenting on your remark that the majority of Christendom is, according to you, unwise -- that finally some wise individuals have blown the lid off this whole Trinity thing. I’m sure that must be it. (in case you aren’t sure – I’m exercising sarcasm again.)

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316]

So tell us how you became so much wiser than the overwhelming majority of Christendom?

God's Word gets all credit.

Self righteous much? My question was sarcastic because of course God’s Word gets all the credit. Which is why your comment, “Yet a wise person doesn't fall for such trickery.� is so arrogant in the implication that you are too wise to get it wrong.

The Bible says, “Jehovah Our God Is One Jehovah�—Deuteronomy 6:4.

And that’s true. Though Biblical scholars agree the word Jehovah was not used – at least not in all the places that some sects like JW’s changed/altered Sacred Scripture to suggest that it did. Scripture also says . . .

Strawman.
There is only one name thus only person. While all the other nations around Israel were worshiping triads, Moses remind the Israelites there is only One personality. That is the point that many are completely unresponsive to. They see but it's like their hearts are made of Teflon.

Anyway, plenty of threads about the Trinity. I was simply commenting on your remark that the majority of Christendom is, according to you, unwise -- that finally some wise individuals have blown the lid off this whole Trinity thing. I’m sure that must be it. (in case you aren’t sure – I’m exercising sarcasm again.)

They are only unwise if they see the similarities between the old triad gods and the modern-day version of the trinity and just go about like those similarities are not there. They numb themselves to facts or attempt to change the facts. The fact that a grouping of 3 worshiped personalities is old, very old. The fact that the guy that made the decree as to what the nature of the Christendom god, was a person that had a background with triad gods. He went with the choice that made the most sense to him. His decision was not because he was divinely inspired but because he was trying to satisfy everyone, if he didn't his country was going to enter a civil war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Greek τ�ιάς and τ�ιάδα, from Latin: trinus "threefold")

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to 2timothy316]


10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.� –John 14:9-11
To name a few.

Those verses there show the distinction between God and the son of man. They describe indwelling of the spirit of God. Which is what all believers should strive for, making their bodies(and minds) a temple for the Lord to dwell in like the Holy of Holies.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/your_body_is_a_temple

Those verses alone should end the thought/theory of the Trinity.