God's Attributes

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theleftone

God's Attributes

Post #1

Post by theleftone »

Cathar1950 wrote:What is Gods power? Why is he called all-powerful or all-knowing or omni-present? Why does God have these attributes and where is he attributed them in the bible?
Cathar1950 asked about the attributes of God and where these ideas about God come from. I thought it'd be good to move such a discussion to a new thread in TDD.

Questions for debate.
1. What are the attributes of God?
2. Where are these ideas found in Scripture?
3. Where are these ideas found in doctrinal history? (Jewish/Christian)

adlemi
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Re: Not Always So Clear (really); We're All Human

Post #31

Post by adlemi »

melikio wrote: I know "faith", "hope" and "LOVE" prevail (with some believers), but I don't claim to be perfect in any of those aspects (despite the reality that I am sometimes EXCELLENT in one or more of them). I have aspirations concerning all of those things, but not necessarily by the approach others have claimed I SHOULD.

-Mel-

Just focus your whole attention to God ignoring the things around you so that you can make it with God as Paul did.

melikio
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Re: Not Always So Clear (really); We're All Human

Post #32

Post by melikio »

adlemi wrote:
melikio wrote: I know "faith", "hope" and "LOVE" prevail (with some believers), but I don't claim to be perfect in any of those aspects (despite the reality that I am sometimes EXCELLENT in one or more of them). I have aspirations concerning all of those things, but not necessarily by the approach others have claimed I SHOULD.

-Mel-

Just focus your whole attention to God ignoring the things around you so that you can make it with God as Paul did.
I don't want to be "Paul", I want to be "me". Not that I am any more or less than him, but that it has turned out the only thing in the Bible that really inspires me, is the love of Jesus. It's what causes me to be interested or motivated at all.

The shape and form of my spirituality appears to be "standard"; I can relate to most things "Christian" (even various ideas/concepts I disagree with) socially, as I was taught to do; but where my "heart" is, has never lined up with the Bible or others' concepts of God (per se). Love, is the main thing which has affected religion in my life; it is my connection to what goes beyond merely what I know (God and othr things I believe are greater than myself). And I believe I have some significant understanding of why it is of as primary importance as anything human beings could meditate upon and discuss. Jesus made a point of putting "love" first (as I interpret the character), and interestingly enough, I've found the concept to be absolutely foundational in my own life (faith and hope are their companions). Faith, hope and love are what I live by, even though I can't always put a "Christian" or intellectual wrapper on any of them.

So, that has indeed become the "focus" in my life and to the core of my being. As I said, it is the primary reason why "any" of Christianity matters to me at all, and more importantly, it is why I endeavor to care about others.

Funny thing is, today I look at "Paul" and listen to how others interpret many of the verses associated with that particular biblical author, and I basicaly see the right-wing, conservative Christian mindset (for the most part). Still I know someday, it may all make more sense to me in the future.

The Bible or Paul isn't my primary connection to God, love is.
Additionally, if God's grace isn't great enough to reach out to "Mel" (and not just "Paul") right where I am, then I will never "...make it with God..." (as you imply).

I don't believe that Christians need to be lock-stepped, bio-clones of one another, to receive from God that which He has decided to afford mankind as a whole. And I don't necessarily believe that Christians have the exclusive "formula" or "method" for understanding and receiving the goodness of The Creator.

Over time, despite my deeply-fundamental Christian experiences, I realized and accepted that while the Bible (and study of the same) points to certain forms of wisdom, there are other things which also apply to our lives (even spiritually) in this world. And it's almost as if each person must carve out a unique window from which to view the "realities" that are common for all.

So what I'm saying, is that individual people are different; that love regards what is unique and what is common, in the best possible way/s. And if anyone asks me, or says to me the kinds of things you say, I will tell them that I can only connect (to God or to them) via "love". Otherwise (for me and likely for them), it will all be a meaningless charade or exercise, which "religion" easily can become.

If is weren't for the essence of what Jesus taught (hopefully that which many find to be "Christian"), I wouldn't even discuss Christianty or the Bible at all. For me, it's not just trying to be like "Paul" or anyone else in the Bible, but to be "me" and allow God to find/meet me wherever I happen to be; I'm not against going to where He may be, but I don't assume I REALLY KNOW where He is.

I'm just a human being; I just want to love an be loved. That has been the true meaning of life for me.

-Mel-
Last edited by melikio on Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

melikio
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(Attributes may "differ".)

Post #33

Post by melikio »

1. What are the attributes of God?
We can discuss how various texts have listed such a being's "attributes", or we can simply share what we see within our own concepts of "God". I think that the latter, would be most honest overall.
2. Where are these ideas found in Scripture?

In "Scripture" the ideas are found in many many places. But it is the interpretations and subsequent applications by mankind which spark the concerns we typically address; even in a forum such as this.
3. Where are these ideas found in doctrinal history? (Jewish/Christian)
Ideas and concepts of God, are simply NOT limited to the standard Judeo-Christian or Muslim views of reality. Virtually ALL cultures have concepts of God (or gods). And people reading from the SAME books, going to the SAME places of worship can have unique views of "God" (or "gods").

I made a DEEP DIG into "Christianity" (several decades), and my view of God shows a person of love. Others have NOT come to the same conclusion as I have. And all one can do (in my view), is accept that others are going to have different views of such things period.

No person's world should be "rocked", when they find that others believe DEEPLY in something that is (possibly or seemingly) 180 degrees away from their own thinking/beliefs. That people would "reason" together, is likely far more important than discovering that there is a difference between them.

Why is it that SO MANY people's religious training, thrusts them into a FREAK-OUT (fight/flight) mode, whenever something "different" is encountered by them? (Ever noticed the way different "Christian" sects refer to one another?)

People really need to calmly and reasonably think that over (and openly, compassionately discuss the same).

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

adlemi
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Re: Not Always So Clear (really); We're All Human

Post #34

Post by adlemi »

melikio wrote:
I don't want to be "Paul", I want to be "me".

Yes you must be what you are and it is not proper for you to desire to be Paul, but what am I just pointing out is to focus your whole attention to God himself, a thing that Paul did to God also.
Not that I am any more or less than him, but that it has turned out the only thing in the Bible that really inspires me, is the love of Jesus. It's what causes me to be interested or motivated at all.
Still, it is only the bible that makes you inspired and not God himself that taught you to be such in your life.
but where my "heart" is, has never lined up with the Bible or others' concepts of God (per se).

If for the reasons that they just come from the wisdom and knowledge of men, this will really be a good thing for your heart. But with whom do you learn the things you are saying in this forum especially about "love"?
Love, is the main thing which has affected religion in my life; it is my connection to what goes beyond merely what I know (God and othr things I believe are greater than myself). And I believe I have some significant understanding of why it is of as primary importance as anything human beings could meditate upon and discuss.

The real and alive God himself is the only One above and of primary importance that human beings can come to and sup with for the rest of their lives to ensure their salvation and eternal life.
Jesus made a point of putting "love" first (as I interpret the character), and interestingly enough, I've found the concept to be absolutely foundational in my own life (faith and hope are their companions). Faith, hope and love are what I live by, even though I can't always put a "Christian" or intellectual wrapper on any of them.
But you are just talking here of what you have read and understood from the bible, I thought you do not line up your heart with the bible? Did I get you wrong in that area?
So, that has indeed become the "focus" in my life and to the core of my being. As I said, it is the primary reason why "any" of Christianity matters to me at all, and more importantly, it is why I endeavor to care about others.
Indeed, I see your point but aren't you afraid that you are just doing it on your own understanding and not as what the real and alive God may command you should you just put and place yourself totally under the custody of God himself?
Funny thing is, today I look at "Paul" and listen to how others interpret many of the verses associated with that particular biblical author, and I basicaly see the right-wing, conservative Christian mindset (for the most part). Still I know someday, it may all make more sense to me in the future.
It will only make a real sense if the Lord God himself will be your Teacher in this "love" that you are talking about.
The Bible or Paul isn't my primary connection to God, love is.
It is the person's right faith in God that connects him to God. How can you know the meaning of Love if you will not learn same directly from God. Knowing the real meaning of anything can only be possible with God who is the TRUTH.
Additionally, if God's grace isn't great enough to reach out to "Mel" (and not just "Paul") right where I am, then I will never "...make it with God..." (as you imply).
The real and alive God himself is enough to reach out to "Mel" and anyone. All you have to do is to call on to God in the right way and have within your heart the right faith in God. God is just beside you right now, do you know that? Your right choice and decision of coming to God is the utmost factor that will give you the right faith in God.
I don't believe that Christians need to be lock-stepped, bio-clones of one another, to receive from God that which He has decided to afford mankind as a whole. And I don't necessarily believe that Christians have the exclusive "formula" or "method" for understanding and receiving the goodness of The Creator.
It is God himself that does it all for all of us and no one can monopolize God nor can anyone formulate something to get favor from God except for the individual's right decision to choose God to be the only Master of their whole life.
Over time, despite my deeply-fundamental Christian experiences, I realized and accepted that while the Bible (and study of the same) points to certain forms of wisdom, there are other things which also apply to our lives (even spiritually) in this world. And it's almost as if each person must carve out a unique window from which to view the "realities" that are common for all.
And this one is none other but for you to come to and talk to the real and alive God so that you may get from God himself the things that you must do in your life to attain salvation and eternal life. This is only what is at stake in the life of every individual - the destiny of our soul and spirit.
So what I'm saying, is that individual people are different; that love regards what is unique and what is common, in the best possible way/s. And if anyone asks me, or says to me the kinds of things you say, I will tell them that I can only connect (to God or to them) via "love". Otherwise (for me and likely for them), it will all be a meaningless charade or exercise, which "religion" easily can become.
I doubt about this one because you cannot know the right meaning of love unless it is the Lord God himself who will teach you, otherwise your love will just be a good works that merits nothing about your own salvation.
If is weren't for the essence of what Jesus taught (hopefully that which many find to be "Christian"), I wouldn't even discuss Christianty or the Bible at all. For me, it's not just trying to be like "Paul" or anyone else in the Bible, but to be "me" and allow God to find/meet me wherever I happen to be; I'm not against going to where He may be, but I don't assume I REALLY KNOW where He is.
Do you not believe that God himself is just besides you right now?
I'm just a human being; I just want to love an be loved. That has been the true meaning of life for me.
But you must first get the right meaning of love from the Lord God himself, not from me, not from you, not even from the bible.

-Mel-

adlemi
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Re: (Attributes may "differ".)

Post #35

Post by adlemi »

melikio wrote:
melikio wrote:We can discuss how various texts have listed such a being's "attributes", or we can simply share what we see within our own concepts of "God". I think that the latter, would be most honest overall.
Wouldn't it be much better if we ask the real and alive God himself who is the only One authority who can speak well and good about this said attributes of God.
melikio wrote:
2. Where are these ideas found in Scripture?
In "Scripture" the ideas are found in many many places. But it is the interpretations and subsequent applications by mankind which spark the concerns we typically address; even in a forum such as this.
God's attributes can only be found from the alive and real God himself, why in the scriptures or the bible, they are not the real and alive God and they may tell us some lies about this topic.

melikio
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Limits

Post #36

Post by melikio »

adlemi wrote:
melikio wrote:We can discuss how various texts have listed such a being's "attributes", or we can simply share what we see within our own concepts of "God". I think that the latter, would be most honest overall.
Wouldn't it be much better if we ask the real and alive God himself who is the only One authority who can speak well and good about this said attributes of God.
melikio wrote:
2. Where are these ideas found in Scripture?
In "Scripture" the ideas are found in many many places. But it is the interpretations and subsequent applications by mankind which spark the concerns we typically address; even in a forum such as this.
God's attributes can only be found from the alive and real God himself, why in the scriptures or the bible, they are not the real and alive God and they may tell us some lies about this topic.
adlemi, I understand where you are coming from. It's all ultimately about "faith", as I see it.

Words so often have express limits to their usefulness.

Peace and grace to you in Christ.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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