The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

[JehovahsWitness]

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

Would those be the same beings that died in human bodies raised in different bodies, or two different beings? In other words is the person that is given a spiritual body the same person that died or are they two different persons/beings.

The only difference would be the type of body.

So it's the same person with a different body?

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus completed His mission as a man and will never have to do that again. Thus He is alive for ever and ever.

How can Jesus be alive for ever and ever if Jesus doesn't exist anymore?

And did both (two) exist after the 33 years? If not which of the two no longer exists?

The physical bodied one.

I understand that THE WORD is alive forever and ever but (correct me if I misunderstood) you dont believe Jesus is THE WORD ... for you they are they are two different beings. The being Jesus is dead (dead as in he (Jesus) no longer exists).

JW

[tam]

Peace to you!

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

Would those be the same beings that died in human bodies raised in different bodies, or two different beings? In other words is the person that is given a spiritual body the same person that died or are they two different persons/beings.

The only difference would be the type of body.

Exactly!

And there were not two separate beings when it comes to Christ. There were never two different beings. There were two different bodies for the one being.


Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Which of the two was made flesh THE WORD or JESUS?

Here it is again:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

But what does it mean, was ...

A) Jesus given a flesh body ... and Jesus walked about on earth

B) was the WORD given a flesh body and the word walked about on earth


.... which was it (a) ..or (b)?


I understand you don't believe THE WORD and Jesus are the same person (please correct me if I'm wrong).




JW

[Checkpoint]

I prefer what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 15:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?�

42 The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44 it is sown a soulish body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living soul�; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the soulish, and after that the spiritual.

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we g bear the image of the heavenly man.

Then we agree.

Paul is writing to Christians and states that Christians will be resurrected at the Second coming.

He states that the Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

It's good to finally reach agreement on this important subject.

About Christians, yes; about Christ, not so much.

Specifically, this from you:

So He was never resurrected with a spiritual body.

He had one awaiting His return.

That of the Word.

This exchange of one body for another is found nowhere in scripture.
_______

[myth-one.com]

Which of the two was made flesh THE WORD or JESUS?

Here it is again:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

But what does it mean, was ...

A) Jesus given a flesh body ... and Jesus walked about on earth

B) was the WORD given a flesh body and the word walked about on earth

.... which was it (a) ..or (b)?

Neither.

Jesus was born a human with a flesh body.

I understand you don't believe THE WORD and Jesus are the same person (please correct me if I'm wrong).

They are different type of bodies.

Define what you mean by "person."

To me that word defines humans.

Do you consider God a person?

The ONE difference between The Word and Jesus is type of body!!

Why was the Word made flesh according to the scriptures?

Here's a hint:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

The Word was made flesh so He could what?

[myth-one.com]

I prefer what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 15:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?�

42 The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44 it is sown a soulish body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living soul�; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the soulish, and after that the spiritual.

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we g bear the image of the heavenly man.

Then we agree.

Paul is writing to Christians and states that Christians will be resurrected at the Second coming.

He states that the Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

It's good to finally reach agreement on this important subject.

About Christians, yes; about Christ, not so much.

Specifically, this from you:

So He was never resurrected with a spiritual body.

He had one awaiting His return.

That of the Word.

This exchange of one body for another is found nowhere in scripture.

There was never any exchange.

I meant the Word.

He was the Word made flesh.

Somehow that has come full cycle.

Don't ask me how.

No man knows how either "transfer" would have worked.

[Checkpoint]

I prefer what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 15:

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?�

42 The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44 it is sown a soulish body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living soul�; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the soulish, and after that the spiritual.

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we g bear the image of the heavenly man.

Then we agree.

Paul is writing to Christians and states that Christians will be resurrected at the Second coming.

He states that the Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies.

It's good to finally reach agreement on this important subject.

About Christians, yes; about Christ, not so much.

Specifically, this from you:

So He was never resurrected with a spiritual body.

He had one awaiting His return.

That of the Word.

This exchange of one body for another is found nowhere in scripture.

There was never any exchange.

I meant the Word.

He was the Word made flesh.

Somehow that has come full cycle.

Don't ask me how.

No man knows how either "transfer" would have worked.

No man knows anything about a "transfer " of watever between whoever after Jesus rose from the dead.

No one knows as the NT says nothing because no such thing happened.

Grace and peace.

[JehovahsWitness]

Define what you mean by "person."

I would define a "person" as an individual* , a distinct intelligent being, with personality and memory, capable of making moral decisions that govern that individual's own actions.

A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness - wikipedia

* AN INDIVIDUAL

A particular being or thing as distinguished from a class, species, or collection - merriam-webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/individual

NOTE Most Secular sources conclude that the only intelligent, moral beings that exist are human beings/physical beings, but the bible holds that humans are not the only intelligent beings that exist. God is an independent intelligent moral being as are all the millions of angels he has created. Indeed the bible explains there are in fact two types of intelligent beings: those that have physical bodies (humans) and those that have spirit bodies (spirits).

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 295 by JehovahsWitness]




IS ALMIGHTY GOD A PERSON?

• Yes absolutely. GOD is not a human person, he is a spirit person. A spirit person is an intelligent individual with a spirit body. A spirit person is a non-physical being capable of rational self generated thought, and capable of making moral decisions that govern that one's actions (free will).

IS GOD THE ONLY SPIRIT PERSON THAT EXISTS?

• No. God was the only spirit person in existence before he created other intelligent spirits like himself. The first and foremost was THE WORD, the mighty spirit person that later came to earth as the human Jesus. Later God made many millions of other intelligent non-physical spirit person's, we often refer to these as " angels". Humans cannot see spirits but spirits can see humans.
  
  Further reading : Who is Jesus Christ?
  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005681

IS THE HOLY SPIRIT A "PERSON"?

• No, in the bible "holy spirit" refers to God's active force or power. One could think of it as what God "zaps" people with. Holy spirit is simply Gods power, the force uses to get things done. Much like the wind or electricity holy spirit is something not someone.
  
  For a more detailed response on HOLY SPIRIT please follow this link
  http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 26#p413826

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NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses