Origin of the incarnate Jesus..

[Elijah John]

According to Church orthodoxy, Jesus was eternally pre-existent along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Yet we read that it was the Holy Spirit who impregnated Mary. Doesn't that go against the notion that the Son always was? And the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who in effect "Fathered" Jesus suggests that the Son only came into being when the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary.

Which begs the questions.

Shouldn't it have been the pre-existent Jesus who "overshadowed" Mary?

What is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the pre-existent Christ?

Or what is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the Risen Christ?

Are these questions evidence of the confusion wrought by the doctrine of the Trinity, and thus evidence that the Trinity is a man-made model made in order to understand the Divine, and not really Divine revelation?

[Eloi]

That is what you believe, but it is not what Bible teaches:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom YOU, for YOUR part, delivered up and disowned before Pilate’s face, when he had decided to release him. 14 Yes, YOU disowned that holy and righteous one, and YOU asked for a man, a murderer, to be freely granted to YOU, 15 whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. 16 Consequently his name, by [our] faith in his name, has made this man strong whom YOU behold and know, and the faith that is through him has given the man this complete soundness in the sight of all of YOU. 17 And now, brothers, I know that YOU acted in ignorance, just as YOUR rulers also did. 18 But in this way God has fulfilled the things he announced beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer.

[seve]

[Replying to post 9 by Eloi]

Dear Eloi,

Clearly, Isa 43:10 speaks of Jehovah being the ONLY God physically FORMED for us to witness. BEFORE him, there's no God Formed, neither there shall be AFTER him.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses (eye witnesses), saith the LORD (Jehovah), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

In fact, it was Jehovah who made this declaration, himself.... read again..

Exo 6:3 And I (Jehovah) appeared (in physical form) unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty (representing his invisible Father), but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Jehovah was sent AGAIN into this world in the New Testament and MADE Flesh and took the FORM of a Man in order to DIE and save us from our sins.

Therefore, Jesus Christ is Jehovah himself of Old, the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father - of whom no man hath seen at any time nor his name has been revealed to anyone at this time.

That is what you believe, but it is not what Bible teaches:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom YOU, for YOUR part, delivered up and disowned before Pilate’s face, when he had decided to release him. 14 Yes, YOU disowned that holy and righteous one, and YOU asked for a man, a murderer, to be freely granted to YOU, 15 whereas YOU killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses. 16 Consequently his name, by [our] faith in his name, has made this man strong whom YOU behold and know, and the faith that is through him has given the man this complete soundness in the sight of all of YOU. 17 And now, brothers, I know that YOU acted in ignorance, just as YOUR rulers also did. 18 But in this way God has fulfilled the things he announced beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer.

Dear Eloi,

Exactly which one of the two cited text you do NOT understand? Perhaps, you need to read again the OLd English KJV of the Scripture that I have provided above for your better understanding.

I am NOT sure what kind of ADULTERATED VERSION of the Scripture you are using. It must be In House Version customized to your of your own Religious view - not original version then.

God Bless

[Eloi]

I read the Scriptures you cited. Did you read the ones I cited?

[Eloi]

Other interesting passage is this:

John 2:13 Now the passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves and the money brokers in their seats. 15 So, after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!� 17 His disciples called to mind that it is written: “The zeal for your house will eat me up.�

If Jesus is saying that the temple in Jerusalem is his Father's house, he is saying the Father is Jehovah.

John 8:53 You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? Also, the prophets died. Who do you claim to be?� 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who YOU say is YOUR God; 55 and yet YOU have not known him. But I know him. And if I said I do not know him I should be like YOU, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

[seve]

Other interesting passage is this:

John 2:13 Now the passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves and the money brokers in their seats. 15 So, after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!� 17 His disciples called to mind that it is written: “The zeal for your house will eat me up.�

If Jesus is saying that the temple in Jerusalem is his Father's house, he is saying the Father is Jehovah.

John 8:53 You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? Also, the prophets died. Who do you claim to be?� 54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who YOU say is YOUR God; 55 and yet YOU have not known him. But I know him. And if I said I do not know him I should be like YOU, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Dear Readers,

Here is what Jesus Christ told the Jewish Scribes, Scholars and Pharisees - who were seeking to have him killed during the time of his mission on this earth - who also insisted that their father is YÄ•hovah, their God - not realizing, of course, that Jesus Christ is YÄ•hovah himself of old - the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father.

John 8
v54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: v55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. v58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. =(YÄ•hovah)

No one knows the name of the invisible Almighty God - the Father of our Lord Jehovah/Jesus, Christ - at this time... until one overcometh the end.... Read below.

Rev. 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: AND I WILL WRITE UPON HIM THE NAME OF MY GOD, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev, 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HIMSELF.

Eph 3:14-15 For this cause I bow my knees unto the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.

Conclusion: YÄ•hovah is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the invisible God Almighty - whose Name is not yet been revealed to anyone at this time.

God Bless