If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #150]

people are using (or should be) using what they know to come to their conclusion.

That would be nice. But I've found, many times people seem to act as if KNOW and BELIEVE/BELIEF are the same word. Which, as we know, they're not.

Truth can be found without having all the proof, we do it all the time in everyday life.

While that's debatable, I'm not sure how comparable every day life is to a being such of God.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #150]

people are using (or should be) using what they know to come to their conclusion.

That would be nice. But I've found, many times people seem to act as if KNOW and BELIEVE/BELIEF are the same word. Which, as we know, they're not.

It is a problem for sure. I have debated people that don't even accept the English dictionary as a reference. They make up their own definitions to words. There is no debating a person that only their only source of truth about God comes from themselves. Thus why I created this topic, to understand where people go to get their information about God.

Truth can be found without having all the proof, we do it all the time in everyday life.

While that's debatable, I'm not sure how comparable every day life is to a being such of God.

Yet, it's not God that has to figure who God is. He is letting us use these brains of ours to figure it out. The first thing we have to do is ask ourselves, do we look inward for truth about God or outward. One way is right and one is wrong.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #153]

I created this topic, to understand where people go to get their information about God.

How's that going? Have you been able to make any headwind in answering that question for yourself? Honestly curious, not being sarcastic.

it's not God that has to figure who God is.

I would hope not. Otherwise....

He is letting us use these brains of ours to figure it out.

So do you believe everyone has had enough proof for themselves to believe and those that don't, or aren't sure, are simply not believing because...I don't know. Again, an honest question no sarcasm.

The first thing we have to do is ask ourselves, do we look inward for truth about God or outward. One way is right and one is wrong.

Which is wrong? And why?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #153]

I created this topic, to understand where people go to get their information about God.

How's that going? Have you been able to make any headwind in answering that question for yourself? Honestly curious, not being sarcastic.

Yes! I have found that most people live their life a certain way and then find a way for God to fit that life style. Tradition is a big motivator and pride in their beliefs. Some say that their god talks to them directly. Yet all those that say that, this god doesn't say the same thing to each one. So using my ability to reason I can only conclude that their god is their own ideas.

He is letting us use these brains of ours to figure it out.

So do you believe everyone has had enough proof for themselves to believe and those that don't, or aren't sure, are simply not believing because...I don't know. Again, an honest question no sarcasm.

I think a lot of people cherry pick their proof. It's a hard thing not to do; only listen to what you want to hear. I've also seen people believing something just because it's familiar. When I go from door to door many people say to me, "I have a religion, thank you!" and then close their door without hearing anything I have to say. A person that thinks they have all the answers stops searching and becomes dogmatic. Then no matter what facts come their way nothing moves them to change their minds. And why not think that, when a person tells themselves, "I know everything I need to know".

The first thing we have to do is ask ourselves, do we look inward for truth about God or outward. One way is right and one is wrong.

Which is wrong? And why?

I have done both and I have found more profound facts and knowledge outward than inward. With inward, it was just me talking to myself to comfort myself. There is a person that I know of that doesn't believe most of the Hebrew Scriptures. Not because they went on a archeological dig and found evidence that events didn't happen. But because they think God is too loving to do the things described there. This person is looking inward for comfort and when a person only looks to themselves for truth, there is nothing that can change their mind. This historically has been proven to be disastrous when a person looks inward and says they know God's thoughts.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #153]

I created this topic, to understand where people go to get their information about God.

How's that going? Have you been able to make any headwind in answering that question for yourself? Honestly curious, not being sarcastic.

Yes! I have found that most people live their life a certain way and then find a way for God to fit that life style. Tradition is a big motivator and pride in their beliefs. Some say that their god talks to them directly. Yet all those that say that, this god doesn't say the same thing to each one. So using my ability to reason I can only conclude that their god is their own ideas.

He is letting us use these brains of ours to figure it out.

So do you believe everyone has had enough proof for themselves to believe and those that don't, or aren't sure, are simply not believing because...I don't know. Again, an honest question no sarcasm.

I think a lot of people cherry pick their proof. It's a hard thing not to do; only listen to what you want to hear. I've also seen people believing something just because it's familiar. When I go from door to door many people say to me, "I have a religion, thank you!" and then close their door without hearing anything I have to say. A person that thinks they have all the answers stops searching and becomes dogmatic. Then no matter what facts come their way nothing moves them to change their minds. And why not think that, when a person tells themselves, "I know everything I need to know".

The first thing we have to do is ask ourselves, do we look inward for truth about God or outward. One way is right and one is wrong.

Which is wrong? And why?

I have done both and I have found more profound facts and knowledge outward than inward. With inward, it was just me talking to myself to comfort myself. There is a person that I know of that doesn't believe most of the Hebrew Scriptures. Not because they went on a archeological dig and found evidence that events didn't happen. But because they think God is too loving to do the things described there. This person is looking inward for comfort and when a person only looks to themselves for truth, there is nothing that can change their mind. This historically has been proven to be disastrous when a person looks inward and says they know God's thoughts.

Thanks for the response! Honestly quite a fascinating subject! Personally, in regards to looking inward or outward, I've found highly successful people (mentally, socially, economically) that have done both, but, when it comes to spiritually, I've found more happy, content, confident, kind, spiritual and pleasant people that looked inwardly. That's not to say I don't know people like that who have looked outwardly or people that looked inwardly that are miserable, just most I know and/or seen have done so by looking inwardly. Which makes me question how so many religion teach to look elsewhere for all these good things when they're likely, from what I've seen, in each of us and activated by us, not some outside influence.
Of course, we don't know if anyone is being 100% honest with us and/or haven't found 'something' they shouldn't have which led them to 'false happiness' but we can only go with what we've been told and witnessed.

[2timothy316]

Thanks for the response! Honestly quite a fascinating subject! Personally, in regards to looking inward or outward, I've found highly successful people (mentally, socially, economically) that have done both, but, when it comes to spiritually, I've found more happy, content, confident, kind, spiritual and pleasant people that looked inwardly. That's not to say I don't know people like that who have looked outwardly or people that looked inwardly that are miserable, just most I know and/or seen have done so by looking inwardly. Which makes me question how so many religion teach to look elsewhere for all these good things when they're likely, from what I've seen, in each of us and activated by us, not some outside influence.
Of course, we don't know if anyone is being 100% honest with us and/or haven't found 'something' they shouldn't have which led them to 'false happiness' but we can only go with what we've been told and witnessed.

Where a person looks to find God doesn't mean a person can't be happy or content. Hitler looked inward and he appeared happy with his life. Mother Teresa looked outward and she seemed happy too. I'm sure there are people that look both inward and outward and are content and happy. There those that don't look for the truth about God period and many of them appear happy.

When I started my journey, happiness was not my goal. Truth was my goal. I want to know what is real. Happiness sometimes does come from what I find. Sometimes it is pity. Sometimes its heartbreak. Sometimes it requires a change in myself. Sometimes it is a confirmation that was doing something right already. Seeking the truth about God in my opinion is beyond doing it for happiness, contentment, confidence or to be more kind. I seek the truth of God for truth's sake. I do not care what the consequences of what learning the truth are. I have been richly rewarded, not because of what I know, but because of the adjustments I made due to what I know. I cannot deny truth about God is rewarding, but that was not what I was looking for when I began looking for it.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #157]

Where a person looks to find God doesn't mean a person can't be happy or content.

Of course. But we all those people who, you can tell, found something that makes them stand out; it's obvious they have found something that even normal happy people haven't. These are the people I'm speaking about.

When I started my journey, happiness was not my goal. Truth was my goal. I want to know what is real.

Same here!

I do not care what the consequences of what learning the truth are. I have been richly rewarded, not because of what I know, but because of the adjustments I made due to what I know.

Ditto. A very commendable approach IMO.

I cannot deny truth about God is rewarding, but that was not what I was looking for when I began looking for it.

Pretty much same here. But for me, I'm willing to admit "I don't know for sure" anything about any deity. That's why I became truly happy and relatively content. As time goes by, I may change my POV on the subject. Fact is I'm sure I will to some degree, at least. And I'm honest enough to say so (not implying you are not honest).
Life is a journey and we need to find what's right for each of us based on our own self. Everything else is butter.

[2timothy316]

Life is a journey and we need to find what's right for each of us based on our own self. Everything else is butter.

Yes, yet the question must be addressed, is what we ourselves think is right for us actually right?

It reminds me of an account a few years ago. A couple's child developed bleeding sores. The doctors were stumped as to what the problem would be. They asked about his diet. They said, "Well, he's had oatmeal." Then they asked, what did he have yesterday? They said, "Oatmeal". The doc then asked, "How long has he been eating only oatmeal?" They said for a couple of months. The doctor couldn't believe what he was hearing. You see the child had a severe vitamin C deficiency. AKA scurvy. When asked why did the parents only fed him oatmeal they said, "It was what he liked to eat."

The lesson is, taking in only what we think is good for us might not be all we need. There are truths out there that we all need to survive and if we only examine and accept what WE think is right we could be deficient in something and we could suffer.

[Purple Knight]

Yes! I have found that most people live their life a certain way and then find a way for God to fit that life style. Tradition is a big motivator and pride in their beliefs. Some say that their god talks to them directly. Yet all those that say that, this god doesn't say the same thing to each one. So using my ability to reason I can only conclude that their god is their own ideas.

You're assuming that what is moral for one should still be moral for another, and that if there is a God, he must be fair and transparent. Why would you make those assumptions?

Personally I would expect God to be the least fair being possible since none of his rules actually apply to him.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #159]

yet the question must be addressed, is what we ourselves think is right for us actually right?

The only one capable of answering that, with the most assuredly, is the individual in my opinion.

taking in only what we think is good for us might not be all we need.

That depends on the person, really. Opinions are part of everyone's self, and we all have one (or more). And for sure this may be true, but it also may not be true. The only one that can answer that, honestly, is the one being asked. Sure we can say God is, or Ganesh or what/whom ever you put here. Best case is we have an opinion but ultimately, that's all it is.

There are truths out there that we all need to survive and if we only examine and accept what WE think is right we could be deficient in something and we could suffer.

Possibly. But the other side of the coin may be just as true.