JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the divinity of Jesus the Christ.

The scriptures show that he is Lord of lords and King of kings.

That he is given ALL power in heaven and on earth.

That all judgment is given to him.

That he is alpha and omega, the first and the last.

That his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.

That he holds the keys of death and hell and has overcome the last enemy which is death.

That he has the power to bestow the keys of the kingdom of God to Peter.

That he was in deed the Word of God made flesh and came unto his own and they received him not.

That there is no name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

That he is the savior of all mankind.

That in him the fulness of the Godhead dwells.

That he is the creator of heaven and earth.

That the glorified description of Christ given to John the Revelator is essentially identical to the description of the Lord as given to Daniel.

You have essentially taken the same position as the unbelieving jews who also received him not.

At least you have to acknowledge that he whom you deny godhood has in every instance cited has become as one who has all power in heaven and earth and has the distinction as the risen Lord now stands on the right hand of God the father as so testified by the faithful Martyr Stephen.

May God help your unbelief.

RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the divinity of Jesus the Christ.


RW

The Scriptures, if read carefully, do not show Jesus to be God Almighty. He was GIVEN the power and position that he has BY HIS GOD, THE FATHER. He calls the Father "my God." (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12) He calls himself "the Son of God." (John 10:36) You add to that erroneously.

[otseng]

May God help your unbelief.

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[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the Physical bodily resurrection and divinity of Jesus the Christ.

You claim that he is just a mere mortal like we.

The scriptures show that he is Lord of lords and King of kings.

That he is given ALL power in heaven and on earth.

That all judgment is given to him.

That he is Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.

That his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.

That he holds the keys of death and hell and has overcome the last enemy which is death.

That he Holds the Keys and Power of the Kingdom of God and therefore has the power to bestow the keys of the kingdom of God to Peter.

That he was in deed the Word of God made flesh and came unto his own and they received him not.

That there is no name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

That he is the savior of all mankind.

That there is no name under Heaven whereby man may be saved.

Inasmuch as you deny his divinity, how then, how do you show that a mere mortal can be the savior of all mankind.

That in him the fulness of the Godhead dwells.

That he is the creator of heaven and earth.

That the glorified description of Christ given to John the Revelator is essentially identical to the description of the Lord as given to Daniel.

You have essentially taken the same position as the unbelieving jews who also received him not.

At least you have to acknowledge that he whom you deny godhood has in every instance cited has become as one who has all power in heaven and earth and has the distinction as the risen Lord now stands on the right hand of God the father as so testified by the faithful Martyr Steven.

So Onewithhim, you are claiming contrary to scripture that Jesus the Christ is not God the Son.

That he (Jesus) did not hold the Keys of the kingdom of God.

That God will not judge mankind.

That a mere mortal will now be your judge.

That mere mortals can all receive all that God our father hath. If this were the case, then all other mortals could likewise become eligible to receive “all that the Father hath.

I challenge you to demonstrate your proof from the scriptures each and every point stated above to show that Christ was only a mere mortal and was not a member of the Godhead.

Show us how Jesus as a mere mortal could have power to give the keys of the kingdom of God to Peter unless he himself did not hold those keys being a mere mortal as you claim.

Explain to us how an apostle of the Lord after feeling the wounds in his hand and thrusting his hand into the resurrected flesh and bone wound of his master’s side knew and witnessed for himself of the reality of the resurrection of a body of flesh and bone and then confessed that the Christ indeed was both Lord and God.

(Note: I also observe the you deny the literal resurrection of the flesh and bones body of Christ in other posts)

Indeed resurrected flesh and bone may inherit the kingdom of God in heaven as Christ did.

I do not think you can respond with clear answers to all of the above. Of course, if you can to do so let’s hear it.

Best regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the Physical bodily resurrection and divinity of Jesus the Christ.

You claim that he is just a mere mortal like we.

I challenge you to find anywhere in my posts where I have said that Jesus is a mortal man like you.


.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You said: “Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:51 am
Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the Physical bodily resurrection and divinity of Jesus the Christ.

You claim that he is just a mere mortal like we.

I challenge you to find anywhere in my posts where I have said that Jesus is a mortal man like you.”

My response:

Onewithhim that sounds like a fun challenge.

Your opening post says “Christ is not God.”

1. Does this make him a mortal like us?

2. If not why not?

3. He was born of a mortal mother, does this not make him a mortal offspring?

4. Was he tempted like unto other mortals?

5. If you claim he was not mortal like unto us other mortals, can you clearly show doctrine to support your views?

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

You said: “Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:51 am
Dear Onewithhim,

I find it amazing that you are so willing to deny the scriptures and deny the Physical bodily resurrection and divinity of Jesus the Christ.

You claim that he is just a mere mortal like we.

I challenge you to find anywhere in my posts where I have said that Jesus is a mortal man like you.”

My response:

Onewithhim that sounds like a fun challenge.

Your opening post says “Christ is not God.”

1. Does this make him a mortal like us?

2. If not why not?

3. He was born of a mortal mother, does this not make him a mortal offspring?

4. Was he tempted like unto other mortals?

5. If you claim he was not mortal like unto us other mortals, can you clearly show doctrine to support your views?

Kind regards,
RW

1) Christ is not God. This does NOT make him like other human beings. He was sent from heaven by God and proceeded to be a perfect, sinless
human being, unlike any other man.
2) There is no other man who was or is perfect and sinless.
3) Perhaps he was mortal because of his mother, and he certainly did die, so he wasn't yet immortal---until he was resurrected in a spirit body and had passed all the big tests that he was to endure.
4) He was tempted like any other human, yes. Satan tried to tempt him a few times and wouldn't have if he knew that Jesus couldn't be tempted.
5) Yes he was mortal like unto us, until he was given approval by his Father after his return to spirit life. (Phil.2:8-11)

.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I quote from your last post:
“1) Christ is not God. This does NOT make him like other human beings. He was sent from heaven by God and proceeded to be a perfect, sinless
human being, unlike any other man.
2) There is no other man who was or is perfect and sinless.
3) Perhaps he was mortal because of his mother, and he certainly did die, so he wasn't yet immortal---until he was resurrected in a spirit body and had passed all the big tests that he was to endure.
4) He was tempted like any other human, yes. Satan tried to tempt him a few times and wouldn't have if he knew that Jesus couldn't be tempted.
5) Yes he was mortal like unto us, until he was given approval by his Father after his return to spirit life. (Phil.2:8-11)”

I focus my response on your item # 5 in your response. In reviewing this and your other posts it appears that you deny the literal resurrection of flesh and bones of Christs body.

You appear to represent Christs resurrection as being a resurrection of his spirit body. I find this amazing as you cannot show from the scriptures that Christ’s spirit ever died. It is very clear that his physical body died and during the time of the PHYSICAL DEATH it is also very clear that his spirit went and preached repentance to those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

It is also very clear according to scripture that his physical body was resurrected for when he appeared to his disciples they were affrighted and thought that they had seen a spirit. He then gave this great challenge to them to handle him and see for themselves to witness that his physical body was indeed resurrected. For as he said a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. He also gave other examples such as eating broiled fish to illustrate the reality of his physical resurrection.

The apostle Thomas was still not convinced of this physical resurrection till he had thrust his hand into the wound in his side and touched the wounds in his hands and feet. This touching moment for Thomas removed all doubt.

There is nothing in scripture that states that flesh and bone cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

I quote from your last post:
“1) Christ is not God. This does NOT make him like other human beings. He was sent from heaven by God and proceeded to be a perfect, sinless
human being, unlike any other man.
2) There is no other man who was or is perfect and sinless.
3) Perhaps he was mortal because of his mother, and he certainly did die, so he wasn't yet immortal---until he was resurrected in a spirit body and had passed all the big tests that he was to endure.
4) He was tempted like any other human, yes. Satan tried to tempt him a few times and wouldn't have if he knew that Jesus couldn't be tempted.
5) Yes he was mortal like unto us, until he was given approval by his Father after his return to spirit life. (Phil.2:8-11)”

I focus my response on your item # 5 in your response. In reviewing this and your other posts it appears that you deny the literal resurrection of flesh and bones of Christs body.

You appear to represent Christs resurrection as being a resurrection of his spirit body. I find this amazing as you cannot show from the scriptures that Christ’s spirit ever died. It is very clear that his physical body died and during the time of the PHYSICAL DEATH it is also very clear that his spirit went and preached repentance to those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

It is also very clear according to scripture that his physical body was resurrected for when he appeared to his disciples they were affrighted and thought that they had seen a spirit. He then gave this great challenge to them to handle him and see for themselves to witness that his physical body was indeed resurrected. For as he said a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. He also gave other examples such as eating broiled fish to illustrate the reality of his physical resurrection.

The apostle Thomas was still not convinced of this physical resurrection till he had thrust his hand into the wound in his side and touched the wounds in his hands and feet. This touching moment for Thomas removed all doubt.

There is nothing in scripture that states that flesh and bone cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Kind regards,
RW

I definitely represent Christ's resurrection as being in a spirit body. The Scriptures a quite clear. If he took back his physical body, he would've taken back his sacrifice, would he not?

When Paul wrote about the resurrections of the holy ones, and of course Jesus was the paramount "holy one," he said: "It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one." (I Corinthians 15:44) So it's no big deal that it can be said that Jesus was resurrected in a spirit body. When he went and spoke to the spirits, which were the fallen angels, that were disobedient in the days of Noah, he went after he was resurrected three days after his death, not during his death. Indeed the Scripture there tells us that "he was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the SPIRIT." (I Peter 3:18) There is no reason to say that he went and spoke to the demons before the last day that he was in the tomb. It was AFTER he was raised up after the third day. He was truly dead for three days.

You forget that when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, the door was LOCKED. He could not have entered in a physical body. (John 20:19, 26) (They were thinking at first that they were hallucinating. This is as sensible as you saying he came through a locked door.)

There is no scripture anywhere that shows that Jesus had, or any person has, an identical spirit person living inside them that goes on living after death. "When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: 'It has been accomplished!' and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit." (John 19:30) Why should we believe that he really didn't die but went off somewhere in spirit form after his death and before his resurrection? Can you answer that? The scripture never indicates that he was alive anywhere before his resurrection after three days. When it says "his spirit," it refers to the breath of life that kept him alive---God's own Holy Spirit that keeps us all alive. That is the meaning of "his spirit." Jehovah's Spirit that kept him alive was withdrawn from Jesus so that he died.

You mention "flesh and bone." That's a sly one that my former religion gave us when I was a Baptist. The Scripture says that FLESH and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom, or, heaven. You switched "blood" for "bone" and now you can say that a physical body can go to heaven?? It says that FLESH is also a no-no when speaking of going to heaven. What about THAT part of the formula? NEITHER flesh nor blood can enter into heaven.

We all must pay closer attention to what the scriptures actually say, rather than some popular rendering.

.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You responded as follows:

“I definitely represent Christ's resurrection as being in a spirit body. The Scriptures a quite clear. If he took back his physical body, he would've taken back his sacrifice, would he not?”

My response:
I disagree with you on this point. I think your problem stems from a lack of understanding the mighty atonement of Christ. It appears that you are drawing conclusions regarding the atonement are based on deductive reasoning. In my previous posts I have presented scriptures that make it very clear that the resurrected Christ has a body of flesh and bone.


When Paul wrote about the resurrections of the holy ones, and of course Jesus was the paramount "holy one," he said: "It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one." (I Corinthians 15:44)


Sorry you forgot to mention 1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Paul points out very clearly regarding Adam and Christ that “the second man is the Lord from heaven.” It is obvious that you deny Christ as being the Lord.
I do not think it is your position or power to dictate to the Lord and others what he can or cannot do regarding the resurrection of his body.

You said:

“So it's no big deal that it can be said that Jesus was resurrected in a spirit body. When he went and spoke to the spirits, which were the fallen angels, that were disobedient in the days of Noah, he went after he was resurrected three days after his death, not during his death. Indeed the Scripture there tells us that "he was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the SPIRIT." (I Peter 3:18) There is no reason to say that he went and spoke to the demons before the last day that he was in the tomb. It was AFTER he was raised up after the third day. He was truly dead for three days.”


My response:

1 Peter 3:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Yes, as you said “we all must pay closer attention to what the scriptures actually say rather than some popular rendering.”

Let us examine 1 Peter 3: 18 thru 22.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

So duly observe that Christ was: “put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” The scripture clearly does not say Christ’s spirit was resurrected.

Further, you have not shown that Christ’s spirit had also died. The atonement demonstrates that he sacrificed his body and blood.


1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Peter makes it very clear that Christ went unto the spirits of those who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

There is no mention of him preaching to demons who were fallen angels.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.


Now, I find it very interesting that you claim that Jesus the Christ is not God the Son, yet the scriptures are very clear that he who has gone into heaven and stands on the right hand of God has the power of the following: “angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”

Now, if as you claim, that he is not God the Son, and yet has power over the angels of God, and those same angels also worship him, and all judgement is given him in heaven and earth, and has been according to the scriptures has been given all that the Father hath and has all power in heaven and earth, and somehow you in spite of all this fail to accept the testimony of at least two (2) apostles who are eyewitnesses of his glory and resurrection and who openly accept him as their Lord and God as recorded in scripture, Find it amazing that you still deny the divinity of Jesus the Christ.

Should we accept the first hand testimony of the apostles or your private interpretation?

You should also remember that it is very clear according to Christ’s testimony that he also had “glory with the Father” before his birth into mortality. Also that he would gain additional glory from the Father after his resurrection.

You should also remember that according to the scriptures Even God’s angels are now subject unto him.

According to Matthew 2:2 The wise men were guided to come to worship him.

How is it that inasmuch as Jesus Christ is the creator of heaven and earth and the only name under heaven by which man can be saved that you still deny his divinity as God the son?

If you can show me a more powerful testimony than that of Christ, His apostles, of God’s holy angels and my own witness of the holy Ghost, of the truth of my position, then I might have cause to deny all of the forgoing.

You are welcome to accept my challenge relating to all of the forgoing.

Best regards,
RW