JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #436]

Jesus was tempted exactly as we are:

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Good quote.

As the ERV Bible puts it:

Hebrews 4:15
15 Jesus, our high priest, is able to understand our weaknesses. When Jesus lived on earth, he was tempted in every way. He was tempted in the same ways we are tempted, but he never sinned.

So if Jesus "was tempted in the same ways we are tempted," he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman. And no doubt he masturbated. Right? Because the Bible never regards masturbation as a sin, or condemns it in any way. So why not?


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[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #441]
How could you say such a disrespectful and ignorant thing? Didn't you already bring that false premise up previously? You are fixated, I guess, on unseemly actions by animalistic people who can't control their urges. Christ may have been attracted to a woman, but I have no doubt that he didn't react like a dog. He was a fine example of self-control.

Masturbation is essentially having sex with yourself, and it would be, I imagine, not acceptable to a Christian at all. Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from such actions.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #441]
How could you say such a disrespectful and ignorant thing?

Because I don't believe that attributing sexual behavior to those who might engage in it to be at all disrespectful, or how such a thing would qualify as ignorant, which is a real head-scratcher. Considering you're obviously uneasy with the subject of sex should we assume you've never engaged in it, or perhaps your first experience was a flop, OR maybe that its mechanics frighten you? Your attitude, it is a puzzlement.

Didn't you already bring that false premise up previously?

What premise is that, and how do you know it's false?

You are fixated, I guess, on unseemly actions by animalistic people who can't control their urges.

Really!!! You are aware that sex is a very, very common and enjoyable human activity, do you not? And, with few exceptions, is never regarded as unseemly actions by animalistic people. Please see post #436 where I've provided links to a few articles that regard sex as:

One of "The 5 Basic Needs of a Man" (from a list by Brookland Baptist Church)

One of our 8 "PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS" (from a list by The Father Of St. Joseph church)

One "of Basic Human Needs" (from Nursing Fundamentals 1)

That "Our sexual desires and the urge to fulfill them are right next to air and food, and we can't live without them." (from the Jama ca Gleaner)

And that "sex is one of mans' basic needs such as breathing, food, water, shelter, clothing, sleep, and comfort." (from Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs)

Christ may have been attracted to a woman, but I have no doubt that he didn't react like a dog. He was a fine example of self-control.

Evidently then you regard having sexual desires for a man or woman to be reacting like a dog. Think your mother or father ever reacted like dogs, or perhaps your grandfathers and grandmothers reacted like dogs? How about your siblings or cousins, think they've react like a dogs? . . . . . Thinking about it, perhaps you do.

Masturbation is essentially having sex with yourself, and it would be, I imagine, not acceptable to a Christian at all.

Considering that close to 90% of Americans admit to masturbating, and that 73% of Americans identify as Christians,* one can pretty much figure that a good 65% of all Christians in the USA masturbate.

Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from such actions.

And I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. Interested?


*source

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #441]
How could you say such a disrespectful and ignorant thing?

Because I don't believe that attributing sexual behavior to those who might engage in it to be at all disrespectful, or how such a thing would qualify as ignorant, which is a real head-scratcher. Considering you're obviously uneasy with the subject of sex should we assume you've never engaged in it, or perhaps your first experience was a flop, OR maybe that its mechanics frighten you? Your attitude, it is a puzzlement.

We haven't been talking about sex overall. The subject has been masturbation. Of course there is nothing wrong with sex.....between a man and a woman who are married. I am not uneasy with the subject of sex. I have been married, and I have 5 children. YOUR attitude, Miles, is a puzzlement.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #441]
How could you say such a disrespectful and ignorant thing?

Because I don't believe that attributing sexual behavior to those who might engage in it to be at all disrespectful, or how such a thing would qualify as ignorant, which is a real head-scratcher. Considering you're obviously uneasy with the subject of sex should we assume you've never engaged in it, or perhaps your first experience was a flop, OR maybe that its mechanics frighten you? Your attitude, it is a puzzlement.

We haven't been talking about sex overall.

Then the next time you're discussing the broad issue of sex, or anything else, it would help if you let the other party know you're narrowing the discussion.

The subject has been masturbation. Of course there is nothing wrong with sex.....between a man and a woman who are married. I am not uneasy with the subject of sex. I have been married, and I have 5 children. YOUR attitude, Miles, is a puzzlement.

My attitude that masturbation is just fine? Well, I suppose it's because close to 90% of Americans admit to masturbating, including a good 65% of all Christians in the USA, that I regard it as quite normal. And that those who don't see it as just fine are under some spell of demonization: having been persuaded that masturbation is wicked and threatening. . . . . . or whatever.

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #445]

The subject was clearly masturbation, and I took exception to you posting the entirely disrespectful idea that Jesus did such a thing.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #445]

The subject was clearly masturbation,

No, clearly it was not. You simply dropped sexual desires as a whole and focused on masturbation without giving any hint that that's where you were going. Why else would I write in post #445: "Then the next time you're discussing the broad issue of sex, or anything else, it would help if you let the other party know you're narrowing the discussion"?
IMO your conversational clarity could use a bit of tweaking, my friend.

and I took exception to you posting the entirely disrespectful idea that Jesus did such a thing.

And as I said a few posts back, "Sorry you consider sexually desiring someone and masturbating debasing. You have my sympathies."
Moreover, my guess is that Jesus probably isn't too happy with you for claiming that what he may do in the privacy of his own room should necessarily engender disrespect. After all, masturbation is far more common than not; 94.3% of men having engaged in it with the other 5.7% being liars.


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[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #445]

The subject was clearly masturbation,

No, clearly it was not. You simply dropped sexual desires as a whole and focused on masturbation without giving any hint that that's where you were going. Why else would I write in post #445: "Then the next time you're discussing the broad issue of sex, or anything else, it would help if you let the other party know you're narrowing the discussion"?
IMO your conversational clarity could use a bit of tweaking, my friend.

and I took exception to you posting the entirely disrespectful idea that Jesus did such a thing.

And as I said a few posts back, "Sorry you consider sexually desiring someone and masturbating debasing. You have my sympathies."
Moreover, my guess is that Jesus probably isn't too happy with you for claiming that what he may do in the privacy of his own room should necessarily engender disrespect. After all, masturbation is far more common than not; 94.3% of men having engaged in it with the other 5.7% being liars.


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No, YOU brought masturbation into the forum by saying that Jesus did it. I took exception to that and that's how the subject got hashed around.
Masturbation might be common, but so is adultery, and Jesus wouldn't have participated in that either.

[onewithhim]

Sadly, this topic got way off subject. Jesus has been shown to NOT be God, and there are excellent reasons to be certain of this. I hope folks looking in here will give thought to the original post and compare all the donations to this subject before making up their minds. Jesus himself said that he was not God but God's SON, and he stated that the Father (who alone is God) is greater than he was and is. (John 10:36; John 17:3; John 14:28)

[Miles]

No, YOU brought masturbation into the forum by saying that Jesus did it. I took exception to that and that's how the subject got hashed around.
Masturbation might be common, but so is adultery, and Jesus wouldn't have participated in that either.

While I did bring up the issue of masturbation I never said Jesus masturbated. In reply to Roses' comment in post 427 where she said

"Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son."

I merely asked about her concept of "fully man":

"Then he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman, and no doubt masturbated. Right? Because that's what fully men alive on earth do.
RIGHT?"

From there on I never claimed Jesus masturbated, but strongly suggested that if he was "fully man" it stood to reason that he did, often citing the statistical likelihood. To wit, in part:

So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.

"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."

Masturbation might be common, but so is adultery, and Jesus wouldn't have participated in that either.

Which is why I never said he did, but merely suggested its likelihood. . . . However, to declare he "wouldn't have"---an outright declaration of fact--- requires specific evidence to support your assertion. You've put the burden of proof squarely in your own lap, so what do you have?.... What is your evidence that Jesus never masturbated?

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