JESUS IS NOT GOD

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #421

Post by Revelations won »

Dear onewithhim,

The following found in Jude chapter 1 we find this testimony of Jude speaking of Jesus Christ:

Jude 1:
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jude herein clearly identifies Jesus Christ as God and Savior…Are we to believe you or Jude?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #422

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Revelations won in post #421]
It's speaking of God---Jehovah---our Savior. He is the one calling the shots, the one whose means of saving is his Son, Jesus Christ. Jehovah is the supreme Savior, the Most High (Psalm 83:18, KJV). Jesus is the way that Jehovah planned to save mankind, therefore Jesus can be called the Savior as well. But he is certainly not God. He is guided by God.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #423

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

Responding to your post #422

Yes indeed Jude is speaking of God our savior even Jehovah who is Jesus Christ our Savior. Yes indeed, Christ is indeed Immanuel or God with us as the scriptures so testify. He is the great I Am.

God the Father (Eloheim) did not create the earth. This earth was created under his direction by his Son who is our very redeemer and savior.

If one were to accept your JW theology, one would have to accept the doctrine that God is not omnipotent, because he would be powerless to save and exalt his posterity without Jesus Christ.

I find it interesting that your theology teaches us that Adam, Eve and we should remain ignorant of the knowledge of good and evil. Is it not far better that they and our eyes should be opened to understand good and evil the we could learn by our own experience and exercise of “agency”to discern between good and evil?

It is very apparent from Genesis that the Gods eyes were opened to Cleary discern between good and evil. Should not therefore the offspring of all of God’s children likewise have their eyes opened that they also could discern between good and evil that they might be better prepared to face the challenges of mortality?

Did not the Gods in Genesis clearly testify that “the man has become as one of us, to know good from evil?

Is it not obvious that mortality was a part and parcel of God’s plan for us so that we could fully exercise our
God given agency to act and not be acted upon to work out our salvation and exaltation?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #424

Post by Rose2020 »

Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #425

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 pm Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.
Then he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman, and no doubt masturbated. Right? Because that's what fully men alive on earth do.

RIGHT?


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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #426

Post by Rose2020 »

No.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #427

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:33 pmNo.
But you said "Jesus was fully man while alive on earth," and "according to research by Anthony Bogaert​, a psychology professor at Brock University in Ontario, Canada. Only "about 1 percent of the population​ is asexual,"
source

Asexual – A term used to describe someone who does not experience sexual attraction toward individuals of any gender.
source

So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.

"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."
source

All of which would disqualify Jesus as being "fully man." Or do you have some other definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?


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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #428

Post by Rose2020 »

God bless you. Goodnight.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #429

Post by myth-one.com »

Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:11 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:33 pmNo.
But you said "Jesus was fully man while alive on earth," and "according to research by Anthony Bogaert​, a psychology professor at Brock University in Ontario, Canada. Only "about 1 percent of the population​ is asexual,"
source
Asexual – A term used to describe someone who does not experience sexual attraction toward individuals of any gender.
source
So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.
"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."
source
All of which would disqualify Jesus as being "fully man." Or do you have some other definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Actually, none of what you quoted disqualifies Jesus from being "fully man."

If 1% of humans are asexual, then Jesus could be asexual.

And if 78% percent masturbate, then Jesus could be in the 22% which do not do so.

Neither of those challenges disqualify Jesus from being a man.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #430

Post by Miles »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:21 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:11 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:33 pmNo.
But you said "Jesus was fully man while alive on earth," and "according to research by Anthony Bogaert​, a psychology professor at Brock University in Ontario, Canada. Only "about 1 percent of the population​ is asexual,"
source
Asexual – A term used to describe someone who does not experience sexual attraction toward individuals of any gender.
source
So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.
"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."
source
All of which would disqualify Jesus as being "fully man." Or do you have some other definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Actually, none of what you quoted disqualifies Jesus from being "fully man."

If 1% of humans are asexual, then Jesus could be asexual.

And if 78% percent masturbate, then Jesus could be in the 22% which do not do so.

Neither of those challenges disqualify Jesus from being a man.
Not a "man," but "fully a man."

As I asked Rose2020, do you have some definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?


.

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