JESUS IS NOT GOD

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 815
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #411

Post by Brightfame52 »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:46 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
You made it implicit. Your reasoning gives us no other conclusion to draw than Jesus is his own Son.
Well just know, you said it not I.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #412

Post by onewithhim »

Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:59 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:46 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
You made it implicit. Your reasoning gives us no other conclusion to draw than Jesus is his own Son.
Well just know, you said it not I.
Well just know that you have said it implicitly. We can draw no other conclusion from what you have said. Jesus is his own Son, according to your logic.

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #413

Post by 2timothy316 »

Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
Which trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?
Never heard of such
Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.

While you're answering...

Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 815
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #414

Post by Brightfame52 »

2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
Which trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?
Never heard of such
Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.

While you're answering...

Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
My understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #415

Post by Eloi »

Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pmMy understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !
I have heard something of that from some religious people. However, what they believe to be an explanation of a belief is only an attempt to explain something that doesn't make any sense; this is how it is perceived by those who listen to that supposed "explanation".

God cannot be a "Godhead" composed of three persons; that would be like giving a name to a group, and not precisely describing the person of God. In the Bible, GOD is not a group; He is ONE person and His name is Jehovah, the Father of Jesus.

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #416

Post by 2timothy316 »

Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
Which trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?
Never heard of such
Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.

While you're answering...

Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
My understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !
You didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 815
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #417

Post by Brightfame52 »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:27 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:25 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #401]

Not one of those scriptures disprove Jesus is God, but they Identify Him as the Son of God, the Man Mediator.
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
Which trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?
Never heard of such
Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.

While you're answering...

Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
My understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !
You didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.
They are One God, Yes

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #418

Post by 2timothy316 »

Brightfame52 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:20 am
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:27 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:25 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:48 pm
Brightfame52 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:19 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:55 am
Eloi wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:45 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:09 am
onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:43 am
Then how can God be his own Son?
Where did I say God was His Own Son ?
You haven't said it directly, but you make it implicit when you say that Jesus is God and at the same time the Son of God. They are contradictory statements that lead to the ridiculous idea that God is also his own Son.

When people neglect the logic of thought, the least they produce is rational thinking. They can no longer reason properly, and their statements become empty and meaningless.
Well if I havent said it, dont project it that I did, thats dishonesty. Jesus is Both God and Man scripture says. You haven't disproved it either.
Which trinity do you believe? The one where Jesus and His Father are equals in all respects or the trinity where they are not?
Never heard of such
Interesting. I guess you haven't debated the trinity very long.
However, just so I will know going forward, which side do you fall under? Jesus and His Father are equals in every way at all times or are they not equals at all times in every way.

While you're answering...

Do you believe in the Catholic trinity or the protestant trinity? Or some other trinity? Before a debate can be made, we all need to know what favor of trinity you believe in. They are not the same. If you answer, "there is only one trinity" then please define the trinity.
My understanding is the Trinity consist of 3 distinct beings or persons in the Godhead, not Two ! Father, Son/Word, and Holy Ghost !
You didn't answer my question. Is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit equal in every way at all times? This is a yes or no answer that is required.
They are One God, Yes
Jesus, "Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped." - Philippians 2:6
Why doesn't Jesus consider himself to be equal with God?

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #419

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #418]
Also, Jesus said, "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)


.

User avatar
tigger 2
Student
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 3:02 pm
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #420

Post by tigger 2 »

Jesus, "Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped." - Philippians 2:6
Why doesn't Jesus consider himself to be equal with God?
...............................................

Actually, there is even more to this. The NT Greek word used here is harpagmos. This word means, not merely "grasped," but "seized violently." So, the more accurate rendering would be "did not consider equality with God something to be seized."

Post Reply