JESUS IS NOT GOD

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #261

Post by onewithhim »

If Jesus is the Most High God, then please explain these verses:

1) John 8:29: "He that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him."

Was Jesus talking about himself? How could he be "with" himself? And he obviously did things to please someone other than himself, wouldn't you say?

2) Matthew 11:27: "All things have been delivered to me by my Father..."

If Jesus was God, he would not have to have anything delivered to him, wouldn't you agree?

3) John 7:16: "Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: 'What I teach is not mine but belongs to him that sent me.'"

Would God say that what he taught was not his idea?

4) John 14:31: "...In order for the world to know that I love the Father, even as the Father has GIVEN me the commandment to do, so I am doing."

Does God take orders from anyone? The Father was telling Jesus what to do.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #262

Post by Revelations won »

In my post # 259 I said:

Dear Onewithhim,

Jesus' words:

John 5:19) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)



Since Christ in his ante mortal role as the great Jehovah taught true method of worship, and gave divine laws to guide us in obedience to eternal life, then God the Father likewise also at some earlier period of time
Must have also done the same.

If Christ in the meridian of time pertaining to this world had a physical body provided by His Father via Mary, to house his spirit body, then the Father must of necessity gone through the same process.

If Christ also grew in wisdom and stature with God and man, then the Father also at some predated time must have also gone through the same process.

If Christ had to make the infinite atonement for mortals on this earth by that which he suffered in the garden of gesthemane and on the cross, then it is obvious that the Father also must have done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body at death left his physical body in the tomb, and went and preached the gospel to the spirits in prison, then it is obvious that the Father also has done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body was also reunited with his glorious physical body
Whereupon he in his resurrected state visited Mary and many others and also ascended to his Father in Heaven it is also obvious that the Father also did the same.

Since all power in heaven and on this earth was then given to our resurrected Lord, then it is also obvious that the same was given to his Father by his Father eons of time ago.

The above are in perfect harmony with what Jesus clearly taught in (John 5:19).

Consider further that which Christ taught in the following:

Johon 5:
19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33
Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34
But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

So, Onewithhim, you can see clearly what Christ taught in the additional verses in John 5. I do not ask you to believe me, but you should at least seek to gain deep understanding and believe what Christ himself taught therein.

Remember that it was not I, but the Lord God himself who verily taught such astounding doctrine as contained in John 5.

Consider also that which is testified of in:

Acts:2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


I find that many read the scriptures, but fail to meditate and ponder what is really taught therein. I threw out a number of thoughts relating to what Christ himself taught. I guess the real question is “do you understand in depth and fully believe and accept what Christ really taught in John Chapter 5?

Al I can say is that Jesus herein taught some very thought provoking and soul searching doctrines in this chapter.

For what man knoweth the things of God save by the spirit of God, even so the things of man are understood by the spirit of man.

I wish you the very best in you own personal quest to continue to be edified in obtaining the things God.

Kind regards,
RW


Onewithhim, It appears that you do not understand all that Christ revealed in John Chapter 5. Perhaps it would be well for you to carefully study this chapter and ponder deeply all that his testimony implies.

In another post you implied that I taught that Christ is “the most high god” This is clearly not what I have taught for I have never made that statement. If you can produce on what post I have made that statement, please feel free to so inform me.

If you do believe that Jehovah is indeed “the most high God” or God the Father please clearly so state that as your doctrine so that I may have no misunderstanding.

As I have reviewed the posts upon this subject topic it would appear to me that your misunderstanding arises by your interpretation that Jehovah is “the most high God”. On this point it is obvious that we disagree.

Also many Christians claim that Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ. Are you also among those who make this claim? If so where is the scripture that so declares this?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #263

Post by tigger 2 »

RW wrote: "If you do believe that Jehovah is indeed “the most high God” or God the Father please clearly so state that as your doctrine so that I may have no misunderstanding.

"As I have reviewed the posts upon this subject topic it would appear to me that your misunderstanding arises by your interpretation that Jehovah is “the most high God”. On this point it is obvious that we disagree."
.............................................


Ps. 7:17 - I will praise Jehovah according to his righteousness, and will sing forth the name of Jehovah the Most High. - Darby

Ps. 83:18 - That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth. - ASV.

Gen. 14:22 - And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up my hand to Jehovah, the most high God, the possessor of Heaven and earth, - Literal Translation.

Is. 64:8 - But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - ASV .

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #264

Post by onewithhim »

tigger 2 wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:19 pm RW wrote: "If you do believe that Jehovah is indeed “the most high God” or God the Father please clearly so state that as your doctrine so that I may have no misunderstanding.

"As I have reviewed the posts upon this subject topic it would appear to me that your misunderstanding arises by your interpretation that Jehovah is “the most high God”. On this point it is obvious that we disagree."
.............................................


Ps. 7:17 - I will praise Jehovah according to his righteousness, and will sing forth the name of Jehovah the Most High. - Darby

Ps. 83:18 - That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth. - ASV.

Gen. 14:22 - And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lifted up my hand to Jehovah, the most high God, the possessor of Heaven and earth, - Literal Translation.

Is. 64:8 - But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - ASV .
Yes, absolutely. There can be no mistake. It is crystal clear that Jehovah is the Most High, and he is the God that Jesus worships.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and the one you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3, the NWT Reference Bible)

"...I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." (John 20:17)

"Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the kingdom to his God and Father....When all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (I Corinth.15: 24,28)

What does it mean, that God may be all things to everyone? It obviously does not include Jesus because he subjects himself to God. It is Jehovah, the Father, who must be "all things to everyone," and Jesus is just fine with that.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #265

Post by onewithhim »

Are there folks here who would agree with the conclusions of the OP?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #266

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

You said: “Jesus was born a perfect man on this earth.

However the scriptures state:

Hebrews5:
8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;




You should also consider the following:J

John 5:
22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23
T[/b]hat all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

I really wonder and am amazed that you still deny Christ as God the Son in spite of the fact that Christ is the judge of all.

How is it that according to scripture, Christ is King of kings and Lord of Lords and yet you deny Christ as God the Son?

How is it the even the angels of God worship Christ, yet you in your unbelief place yourself above God’s angels and still deny the divinity of Jesus Christ?

How is it that Christ is Alpha and Omega according to Revelation and yet you still deny the divinity of Jesus Christ as God the son of the Eternal Father?


How is it that according to:

“John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
"

Since Christ was in the beginning with God and was God and made or created all things under the direction of God the Father and yet you remain in a state of unbelief and denial of the divinity of Christ as the only begotten son of the Father?

I so testify and bear witness that Christ is ALL that the scriptures testify and witness that in him is found the fulness of the Godhead as the Bible so clearly states.

I do certainly respect your “opinions” and do certainly respectfully disagree with you.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #267

Post by Revelations won »

Dear onewithhim,

I find it very amazing that you are still in denial of the divinity of Christ when it is abundantly clear that Christ is Lord of lords, and King of kings, is worshipped by God the Father's angels, is the veery alpha and omega, has now inherited all that the Father hath, is our very judge of all, has been given all power and judgement in heaven and earth, has the power to forgive, has the power to redeem all who will, has the very power to resurrect all mankind.

The Jews for the most part have rejected his divinity, and will continue to do so until the very crucial moment when he will stand on the mount at Jerusalem and will deliver the remaining remnant of the House of Judah from utter destruction. Yes at that very juncture they will ask of him regarding how he received the wounds in his hands and feet and body and he will with full power and authority of his divine sonship declare unto them at that day that "these are the wounds which he received in the house of my friends", and they will then believe and be converted and worship him in his divine role as the very messiah and deliverer. Yet at that day you will continue to deny him as God the Son with your unbelief. Simply amazing!

I hope that someday that those who walk in darkness at noon day will at some time come to the true light of Christ as I have and come to fully know him and cherish all that he has done for each and every one of us.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #268

Post by Jim_hayes »

As Jesus said: 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth. 18 Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19 And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth. John17:17-19
What truth? The inspired writer Paul provides the answer: All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 2Timothy 3:16 17  He was inspired by God which makes clear this point as to God. This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-7
This was written some 30 years after Jesus death and was preached to all the Nations. "an accurate knowledge of the truth" as to who Jesus was.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #269

Post by onewithhim »

Jim_hayes wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:16 am As Jesus said: 17 Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth. 18 Just as you sent me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19 And I am sanctifying myself in their behalf, so that they also may be sanctified by means of truth. John17:17-19
What truth? The inspired writer Paul provides the answer: All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 2Timothy 3:16 17  He was inspired by God which makes clear this point as to God. This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-7
This was written some 30 years after Jesus death and was preached to all the Nations. "an accurate knowledge of the truth" as to who Jesus was.
Yes, indeed, he was the mediator between God and man, not God. The phrase "our Savior, God," refers to Jehovah, the Father. It was His will that His Son become the means by which He saves.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #270

Post by onewithhim »

After people have checked out "Jesus Is God" on another thread, I implore them to read through this thread, which gives a lot of food for thought. I would very much like to hear, then, thoughts on the subject.

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