JESUS IS NOT GOD

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #311

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #309]

You commented:
And the timing of believers receiving everlasting life is already set in the Bible. Believers will be born again of the Spirit as everlasting spiritual bodied beings at or after the Second Coming.

The second coming of Christ is when Christ appears to one of His chosen believers and gives them the Latter Rain.

That is why scripture says this:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I COME QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.


If the time for the book of Revelation is still future, how can anyone, especially those who lived and died over the past 2000 years, ever hope to KEEP THE SAYINGS OF THE PROPHECY? The seals were already opened at the time John wrote down the vision.

Was Christ mistaken when He said "I come quickly"? Two thousand years is not quickly.

The truth is the prophecies were fulfilled in the 1st century A.D. and have continued to be fulfilled over and over again since that time. For Christ's Elect of this age, Christ has already come or is presently coming or will come in the future.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Christ's second coming to His Elect will continue until the last chosen person is saved and this age comes to an end.

The book of Revelation is not teaching about outward coming world events. The book is teaching on the pathway to salvation. Those events are spiritual, meaning that they happen "within" a single person. Until a reader can "see" spiritually, the book of Revelation will remain a mystery. We must "keep the sayings" of the book or salvation will pass us by.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #312

Post by myth-one.com »

FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:06 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #309]

Dear Myth-one,

You asked:
So God will force salvation on every human who ever lived?
The Bible states that one must believe in Jesus as their Savior to be saved. Is that incorrect?


God never forces someone to be saved but He does cause it to happen.
Earlier, FaithWillDo wrote:In the end, all mankind will be saved and will give glory to God.
What about those who do not believe in Jesus as their Savior?

The Bible says that nonbelievers perish and believers shall have everlasting life:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
But if all mankind will be saved as you claim, then there will not be a single nonbeliever, right?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #313

Post by Miles »

FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:43 am [Replying to Miles in post #307]

True, there seems to be darker times coming to this country and to the world BUT it is all happening by the "will" of God. God through Jesus is in complete control of all things that happen to mankind. Nothing happens that God does not cause to happen. He never just "allows" anything to happen, He causes it to happen.
So we mere folk have absolutely nothing say in what we do or how we do it because god is pulling all the strings, yet he sees fit to hold us responsible for it all; sending us off to hell if need be---so the story goes. Interesting.

We must trust in Him (walk by faith) and be patient for God to complete His work in this world.
Yet faith is an almost meaningless concept because there's nothing that can't be taken on faith. Having faith in god is no more meaningful than having faith that pink unicorns and fluttering faeries exist.

In the end, all mankind will be saved and will give glory to God.
Then there's absolutely no reason to worship or revere god, or even believe he exists. Chuck Jesus and all he is said to stand for because in the end we all get to stick in our thumbs and pull out the plum.


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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #314

Post by onewithhim »

FaithWillDo wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:59 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #302]

Your arguments seem to be going in circles. I have never said that Jesus is God the Father. But He is mankind's god and He is the spiritual representation of the Father. Jesus is not the Father. He is a separate person from the Father, like you and I are separate. But spiritually speaking, Jesus and the Father are "one" and the same. Everything that Jesus said can be attributed to the Father as well.

God the Father is the creator of mankind BUT He did His work THROUGH Jesus. God the Father's interaction with this creation goes THROUGH Jesus. Jesus is the one who created mankind and spoke to the OT fathers. God the Father never directly interacted with mankind. He used Jesus for that direct interaction. I don't know how to make it clearer.

Joe
I understand what you said, and I agree. I have commented on the things that I don't agree with you on.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #315

Post by onewithhim »

FaithWillDo wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:12 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #302]

The names Jesus and Jehovah are the same name. That is why the Apostles ONLY baptized in the name of Jesus. Are you saying that the Apostles mistakenly left out the name "Jehovah" when they baptized believers? Are you saying that they should have baptized in the name of Jehovah and Jesus?

There is only ONE name under heaven whereby we can be saved.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

That name is the name of Jesus, which is a transliteration of the name Jehovah.

Joe
Sorry, you are wrong. The name "Jesus" means "Jehovah is salvation," or, "Salvation of Jehovah." The names are not the same. We don't know that the disciples baptized ONLY in the name of Jesus. Matthew 28:19 says clearly that baptism should be done in the name of the Father (Jehovah) AND the name of the Son (Jesus). The two names are different when you look at the Hebrew letters that make them up, as well.

Jesus' name is not the only name that we should call on. It's the only one among men and angels, but Peter quoted a verse from Joel 2:28-32 which says: "And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." (Acts 2:21) So there are TWO names we must call on to be saved. We can't just ignore one of them.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #316

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #312]

You asked:
What about those who do not believe in Jesus as their Savior?


In this present age, Christ is ONLY working to save His "First Fruits" of His harvest of mankind. They have been chosen from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved. The lost will die in their sins and but they will not perished because of Christ's work He accomplished on the cross. They will be resurrected to judgment and be saved.

Christ's judgment is:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these [things] I delight, saith the LORD.

Amos 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

God's judgment fills the earth with God's "goodness" and is NOT like man's judgment. God's judgment will "bless" the nations and make them righteous. It burns away our spiritual impurities and saves us.

All mankind will be judged and purified. The First Fruits are judged during their lifetimes in this present age. All others will be judged in the Lake of Fire age. Judgment is a necessary part of the pathway that leads to salvation. During that judgment, our carnal nature (Old Man) is utterly destroyed and replaced with the nature of Christ via the Holy Spirit. When our judgment is complete, all that is left is our new nature in Christ.

Most Christians believe that Christ's work of salvation only occurs during this age, during a person's lifetime. But there is certainly no verse that states that belief. What scripture does say is that the lost will be resurrected to judgment. And as I have scripturally shown, Christ's judgment is not like mankind's judgment. Christ judges us because He loves us.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #317

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to onewithhim in post #315]

You must believe that scripture is unreliable and is self-conflicting. It is not. Jesus came in the name of God the Father. All the names of God apply to Jesus. For that reason, He is called the mighty God and everlasting Father. God the Father bestowed all His power and authority on Him and then through Jesus, God the Father created and interacted with all of creation. All of the interaction with the Adam, Abraham and so forth was by Jesus. He was the one who walked with Adam in the Garden, the one who spoke with Noah and Abraham, the one who spoke to Moses and guided the Nation of Israel from the cloud. Jesus is mankind's creator and God because the Father gave Him that glory.

Joe

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #318

Post by FaithWillDo »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #312]

You asked:
But if all mankind will be saved as you claim, then there will not be a single nonbeliever, right?

Right. But you must righty divide the Word of God. Christ is only saving the First Fruits in this age. The rest of mankind will be saved at the end of the final age (end of the harvest season, Feast of Tabernacles).

Look at these verses:

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

These verses clearly say that all of Adam's offspring (all who died in Adam) will be made alive in Christ. Who could that possibly leave out?

Also, how can God be "all in all" if not all mankind is saved?

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

How can "every knee bow" and "every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" if not everyone is saved? A person MUST HAVE the Holy Spirit in order to accept Jesus as Lord and that confession is made to the glory of the Father. These verses are only true if Christ truly is the Savior of the world and He accomplishes the mission the Father sent Him to accomplish:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #319

Post by FaithWillDo »

Miles wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:45 pm
FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:43 am [Replying to Miles in post #307]

True, there seems to be darker times coming to this country and to the world BUT it is all happening by the "will" of God. God through Jesus is in complete control of all things that happen to mankind. Nothing happens that God does not cause to happen. He never just "allows" anything to happen, He causes it to happen.
So we mere folk have absolutely nothing say in what we do or how we do it because god is pulling all the strings, yet he sees fit to hold us responsible for it all; sending us off to hell if need be---so the story goes. Interesting.

We must trust in Him (walk by faith) and be patient for God to complete His work in this world.
Yet faith is an almost meaningless concept because there's nothing that can't be taken on faith. Having faith in god is no more meaningful than having faith that pink unicorns and fluttering faeries exist.

In the end, all mankind will be saved and will give glory to God.
Then there's absolutely no reason to worship or revere god, or even believe he exists. Chuck Jesus and all he is said to stand for because in the end we all get to stick in our thumbs and pull out the plum.


.
You commented:
So we mere folk have absolutely nothing say in what we do or how we do it because god is pulling all the strings, yet he sees fit to hold us responsible for it all; sending us off to hell if need be---so the story goes. Interesting.

Mankind has been created so spiritually flawed that mankind cannot even seek God or understand His ways. God made us that way without our consent and He will make us into a child of God in "due time" likewise without our consent.

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

God is God and He does has He pleases:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Paul was confronted with the same issue you just mentioned to me. This is how Paul replied:

Rom 9:14-21 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Also, "hell" is a lie from Satan. It does not exist. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol which represents the judgement of Christ. As I pointed out earlier, Christ's judgment is a necessary step on the path to salvation. It is not literal fire. Here is what Paul said about fire:

1Cor 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The "day" that declares our "work" is our day of judgment. We are saved through judgment (fire). The destruction that occurs is the destruction of our carnal nature (Old Man). Those who are judged now and are saved now, will receive the reward of being saved first and will have life during the ages. Those not saved now, will receive life at the end of the final age and have suffer the loss of the reward. But the decision of when we are saved is not ours to make. That decision was made by God from the foundation of the world to suit His own purposes. In the end, all mankind will be saved and God will then be "all in all" and will have many new children.

Joe

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #320

Post by myth-one.com »

FaithWillDo wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:39 pm What scripture does say is that the lost will be resurrected to judgment.
And following their judgment, those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death:
Revelation 20:15 wrote:And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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