JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[myth-one.com]

Any response, myth and RW?

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

Jesus Christ was made to be "a little lower than the angels," exactly as man was created!

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, (Psalm 8:4-5)

Both were made "a little lower than the angels."

The Word was made flesh as Jesus and dwelt among mankind.

This was the only way to fix the fault in the original testament between man and God.

A God such as The Word was powerless to fulfill Jesus' mission -- as Gods are immortal.

Jesus' mission could only be accomplished by a man.

The Word was made flesh for the suffering of death..

Gods cannot die.

So if Jesus was God, then we would have no Savior.

He had to be a man!

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I asked:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:17 am

If Jesus Christ is indeed the God who created heaven and earth as the scriptures so clearly declare, then how can you declare that he is not God the Son?
The scriptures clearly declare that the Word created everything:

You said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

Jesus was not the Word. He was the Word made flesh:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

You also said: “Post #227
Post
by onewithhim » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:33 pm
It is quite sad that Jesus did all that he did to honor his Father and make known His name, and yet people accuse him of making himself "equal to God." He does not wish this to be entertained, as he clearly indicated that he was in subjection to his Father and always will be. And he loves it that way.

My response: I agree with you on this point.

"The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) He was very clear, but people still push his words aside.


My response:

It is absolutely true that God the Father is greater than the great “I AM” Who we also came to know as the great Jehovah.

I also clearly know and understand that at times Jehovah spake with “divine investiture” . If you do not understand , it is a form whereby Jehovah speaks in the first person as God the Father.

It is so very clear that Jehovah is the creator of all things in heaven and earth.

It is also very clear according to the scriptures that the earth and heaven was created by Jesus Christ.

This being the case it is self evident that they are one and the same.

If you can demonstrate from the scriptures that there are two different creators of the same things, then I am open to hear.

It should also be very self evident from the scriptures that there are three that bare record in heaven, namely the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

For starters this is my response to your post.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #242]

myth, you are not reading my posts. I took great pains to explain that Jesus was NOT God, and that he had to be a MAN to die and pay for mankind's sins. He was a PERFECT man, and sinless, so that he would qualify to be sacrificed for mankind. Perfect man for perfect man. Perhaps you can review what I previously said.

[BibleTruth]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1]

Yes, it's true. Jesus is NOT God. He also never claimed to be God. He said of himself that he is the son of God. Shouldn't we believe him? The Bible also repeatedly tells us that we must believe that he is the SON of God to be saved. It does not say once that we must believe that Jesus is God. Because he is simply not.

I know that this contradicts the opinion of many Christians, but it is true. Read the Bible for yourself from the beginning to the end and stop listening to humans who are just trying to deceive you and justify their own beliefs. Everyone who believes in Jesus is supposed to become like him. This is what the Bible says. He is the firstborn among many brethren.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. - Romans 8:29

https://www.staybiblical.com/jesus-is-not-god/

[theQuestion]

Ironically, Jesus IS God!
As Moses once was~

Ex 7:1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. - Darby

The only translation (except the NWT) that doesn't add "a" "like" or "as" to the verse, since it is NOT there in the Hebrew.

God inspired Paul to make THIS comparson, which ties in nicely with John 1:1~

Heb 3:2- He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.

No, neither Christ nor Moses, even tho CALLED "God" by God Himself, were not LITERALLY God- but STOOD for Him (NOT "Them").

[Difflugia]

Ex 7:1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. - Darby

The only translation (except the NWT) that doesn't add "a" "like" or "as" to the verse, since it is NOT there in the Hebrew.

Hebrew lacks an indefinite article, so "I have made you a god" is indistinguishable in Hebrew from "I have made you God" and either is a valid translation.

Because I'm entertained by theology-driven translations (and mistranslations), I looked myself. Even so, it surprised me how many translations added "like" or "as."

The Recovery Version matches Darby and the NWT in making elohim a proper name:

And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made you God to Pharaoh; and Aaron your brother will be your prophet.

The KJV translates it correctly using an indefinite article:

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The Revised Version is identical, but the ASV added "as," a practice then followed by the modern revisions in the same tradition, the RSV, NASB, NRSV, ESV, and, perhaps oddly, the NKJV.

The other modern versions that I found that read some variation of "I have made you a god" are the HCSB (but not the newer CSB) and the Catholic NAB. Richard Elliott Friedman's translation from The Bible with Sources Revealed and his commentary on the Torah is one I like anyway:

And YHWH said to Moses, “See, I’ve made you a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron, your brother, will be your prophet."

[theQuestion]

Inspiring, Difflugia!
It's an honor to meet you!!!

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

Opinions may be limitless. However I think the scriptures speak clearly in answer to your questions posed.

I have posted elsewhere that Jehovah of the old testament and Jesus Christ are one and the same.

The Old Testament states the the worlds were created by Jehovah. The New Testament also clearly attests that the worlds were created by Jesus Christ. My understanding is that they are one and the same. If you can prove that there are two separate creators then I might find that very interesting.

Christ on occasion testified that he was “I Am”, and that he existed before Abraham.


John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of

Isaiah 41:
4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Acts 17:
31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 10:
42
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Romans 14:
10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


Acts 2:
36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

I Corinthians 8:
5
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Revelation 17:
14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Matthew 2:
2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Did the wise men worship the true and living God and King of the Jews?

Revelation 17:
14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


Matthew1:
23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Colossians 1:
16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Hebrews 1:
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

As I see it you should accept what the scriptures testify in two or more witnesses as shown above, or prove two separate and distinct creators.

Kind regards,
RW

[theQuestion]

What can be expected when they deny Christ, and use perverted translations to support their tradition?

[onewithhim]

Ironically, Jesus IS God!
As Moses once was~

Ex 7:1- And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. - Darby

The only translation (except the NWT) that doesn't add "a" "like" or "as" to the verse, since it is NOT there in the Hebrew.

God inspired Paul to make THIS comparson, which ties in nicely with John 1:1~

Heb 3:2- He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.

No, neither Christ nor Moses, even tho CALLED "God" by God Himself, were not LITERALLY God- but STOOD for Him (NOT "Them").

Your argument doesn't hold up. You quoted Darby, and he rendered Exodus 7:1: "And Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee GOD to Pharaoh..." If Jesus is God, then Moses is also. To be "God" many times means simply being faithful to the true God, as you pointed out.