JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[Avoice]

[Replying to tam in post #220]

The voice never said who it was. So how could anyone claim it was the voice of God. IT DID NOT SAY WHO IT WAS

I have a question: what Christian testament author are you quoting? Whose voice are you listening to?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to tam in post #216]

A 'voice' huh?

Yeah.

Like the 'voice' at the baptism

It's an unidentified voice. No where in the Christian testament is God credited to say anything to Jesus or anybody else. By the way, 'the voice' was heard by bystanders. And they described it. And NONE OF THEM said it was God. And they were there. If it was God they'd have said it. Truth is, you don't know whose voice that is. You just want it to be God.

Who else could it be besides God? One of the angels? The voice said, "This is my Son." Jesus always referred to his Father as God (John 17:3; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12). The voice could've been no one else but God, the Father of Jesus. The same voice, undoubtedly, came out of heaven when Jesus was praying before his arrest, and the scripture says it was the Father (whom Jesus called God)---'"Father, glorify your name.' Therefore a voice came out of heaven: 'I both glorified it and will glorify it again.'" (John 12:28)

So your point that the voice was unidentified is actually spurious.

[PinSeeker]

So your point that the voice was unidentified is actually spurious.

This is a bit of an understatement. I would call his "point"... silly.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #212]

I replied to this in post 213, yet I haven't heard anything further from RW. Are you going to respond, RW?

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I apologize for my delay in responding as I needed to focus on some continuing education requirements for part of my profession. Thank you for your patience.

In your post #213 you said: “I believe He was talking mainly to His Son, the one who became Jesus Christ, but there is nothing there to show that God and Christ are equal.”

I agree with you, in fact I do not recall having ever stated that Christ and God the Father were ever equal. In fact Christ so testified that His Father was greater than he.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

I apologize for my delay in responding as I needed to focus on some continuing education requirements for part of my profession. Thank you for your patience.

In your post #213 you said: “I believe He was talking mainly to His Son, the one who became Jesus Christ, but there is nothing there to show that God and Christ are equal.”

I agree with you, in fact I do not recall having ever stated that Christ and God the Father were ever equal. In fact Christ so testified that His Father was greater than he.

Kind regards,
RW

Well, good. I guess I was mistaken as to your point in that post. Thank you for responding.

[onewithhim]

It is quite sad that Jesus did all that he did to honor his Father and make known His name, and yet people accuse him of making himself "equal to God." He does not wish this to be entertained, as he clearly indicated that he was in subjection to his Father and always will be. And he loves it that way.

"The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) He was very clear, but people still push his words aside.

"...The head of the Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) That the Father is greater is still the case, even after Christ returned to heaven, as this verse shows. When this verse was written, Jesus had been back in heaven for awhile.

"Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father....When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (I Corinthians 15:24,28)


Clear, concise.

[onewithhim]

How does post #227 show that Jesus is equal to God?

Surely, if he is, every Scripture would show that he is. Strange how many verses contradict that idea.

[onewithhim]

Does anyone have a reply to post #227? An answer would be interesting and viable to the thread.

[myth-one.com]

Only God Himself -- in the form of man -- was able and qualified to do this.

Under the Old Testament between God and mankind, the only path to everlasting life was to remain without sin.

But there was a fault in that first testament in that all mankind who ever lived had sinned. Thus, no one had ever become an heir to salvation under that testament.

Jesus was born as a Jewish man and fell under the terms of the Old Testament Covenant!

He lived a sinless human life and became the first and only man to become an heir to everlasting life under that covenant.

However, Jesus will not accept His inheritance, but offer it as a free gift to all who believe in Him as their Savior. In one sentence, here is the requirement for mankind to gain everlasting life under the New Testament:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Here is the biblical legalize justifying this modification:

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Romans 5:18-19)

God created the New Testament reflecting this change.

==========================================

But if Jesus is God as you claim, then He was not a beneficiary under the Old Testament; and the logic simply falls to pieces!

God was the benefactor (one who confers a benefit) under the Old Testament, and man was the beneficiary (one that benefits from something)!

If Jesus is God, then He gains nothing under the Old Testament Covenant by living a sinless life.

He had to be a man to qualify as a beneficiary under the Old Testament Covenant.

=============================================

Under the New Testament, the man Jesus is the benefactor, and all other mankind is the beneficiary.

What Jesus has to offer those who believe in Him as their Savior is His inheritance which He gained by living a sinless human life under the Old Testament Covenant!

That inheritance is everlasting life.

The wages of sin is death, He never sinned, therefore He is an heir to everlasting life.

He will not accept His inheritance, but offer it to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant!