JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[PinSeeker]

Jesus didn’t “dispute� anything. And they were not His “bitter enemies,� they were His countrymen and — supposedly — His allies, even family. When He very clearly proclaimed Himself to be God, they picked up stones with every intention..

This statement contradicts both itself and what Jesus said.

It absolutely does not. They were questioning the grounds on which was making the statements about Himself that He was making.

"Contradicts itself." No, it most assuredly does not. Neither does it "contradict what Jesus said." Both assertions are absurd.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

[Checkpoint]

Jesus didn’t “dispute� anything. And they were not His “bitter enemies,� they were His countrymen and — supposedly — His allies, even family. When He very clearly proclaimed Himself to be God, they picked up stones with every intention..

This statement contradicts both itself and what Jesus said.

It absolutely does not. They were questioning the grounds on which was making the statements about Himself that He was making.

"Contradicts itself." No, it most assuredly does not. Neither does it "contradict what Jesus said." Both assertions are absurd.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

Please see the newly edited version of post #20, which quotes what Jesus said.

Blessings to you, Pinseeker.

[PinSeeker]

Jesus didn’t “dispute� anything. And they were not His “bitter enemies,� they were His countrymen and — supposedly — His allies, even family. When He very clearly proclaimed Himself to be God, they picked up stones with every intention..

This statement contradicts both itself and what Jesus said.

It absolutely does not. They were questioning the grounds on which was making the statements about Himself that He was making.

"Contradicts itself." No, it most assuredly does not. Neither does it "contradict what Jesus said." Both assertions are absurd.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

Please see the newly edited version of post #20, which quotes what Jesus said.

Blessings to you, Pinseeker.

LOL! We are talking about two different passages, Checkpoint. I am talking about John 8, and you John 10. How funny.

But He asserts His deity here, too; in that respect it's no different. In John 10, He's merely correcting by directing them to reexamine their own flawed understandings. Master Teachers do those kinds of things quite often and with great effect. I'll be glad to discuss John 10 further with you if you like.

By the way, thanks for bringing up John 10, where the Jews state their crystal clear understanding that Jesus is claiming to be God, the very blasphemy they think He is committing (verse 33) and what they, here in John 10, and also back in John 8, are wanting to stone Him for. Many posters here have argued vehemently against the fact that this was their clear understanding.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

[onewithhim]

Jesus didn’t “dispute� anything. And they were not His “bitter enemies,� they were His countrymen and — supposedly — His allies, even family. When He very clearly proclaimed Himself to be God, they picked up stones with every intention..

This statement contradicts both itself and what Jesus said.

It absolutely does not. They were questioning the grounds on which was making the statements about Himself that He was making.

"Contradicts itself." No, it most assuredly does not. Neither does it "contradict what Jesus said." Both assertions are absurd.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

Please see the newly edited version of post #20, which quotes what Jesus said.

Blessings to you, Pinseeker.

What is "absurd" is taking the Jewish leaders seriously! They accused Jesus of something that he was not guilty of, and as Checkpoint brought out, he rebutted their absurd accusation!

The Pharisees also accused Jesus of having a demon. Were they right about that, Mr. Pinseeker?

[PinSeeker]

Jesus didn’t “dispute� anything. And they were not His “bitter enemies,� they were His countrymen and — supposedly — His allies, even family. When He very clearly proclaimed Himself to be God, they picked up stones with every intention..

This statement contradicts both itself and what Jesus said.

It absolutely does not. They were questioning the grounds on which was making the statements about Himself that He was making.

"Contradicts itself." No, it most assuredly does not. Neither does it "contradict what Jesus said." Both assertions are absurd.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

Please see the newly edited version of post #20, which quotes what Jesus said.

Blessings to you, Pinseeker.

What is "absurd" is taking the Jewish leaders seriously! They accused Jesus of something that he was not guilty of, and as Checkpoint brought out, he rebutted their absurd accusation!

The Pharisees also accused Jesus of having a demon. Were they right about that, Mr. Pinseeker?

As I said to Checkpoint, onewithhim, and am now saying to you, I was talking about John 8, while he was apparently talking about John 10. So there are no absurdities between us, just that we were talking about two different things and not realizing it.

By the way, Jesus took everybody seriously, and I do, too. As should you. Taking someone seriously does not necessarily mean he/she is right.

If you want to discuss John 10, my offer to him (to discuss it) stands for you as well. But if all you're saying is that he rebutted their accusation, there is no disagreement; I never would have disagreed with that. As I said, John 8 is exactly the same in that respect.

Grace (and a lot of it) and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 25 by PinSeeker]

But if all you're saying is that he rebutted their accusation, there is no disagreement; I never would have disagreed with that. As I said, John 8 is exactly the same in that respect.

Fine.

However, it represents an apparent about face of what you said in post 21:

Jesus didn't dispute anything

What say you about that, Pinseeker?

God bless.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 25 by PinSeeker]

But if all you're saying is that he rebutted their accusation, there is no disagreement; I never would have disagreed with that. As I said, John 8 is exactly the same in that respect.

Fine.

However, it represents an apparent about face of what you said in post 21:

Jesus didn't dispute anything

What say you about that, Pinseeker?

God bless.

There is no "about face." Specifically in John 8, I was talking about Jesus's statement in verse 58 ("...before Abraham was born, I am.") There, he's not "disputing" anything, but merely answering their question.

Now. If you want to TRY to get together and talk about the same thing, whether it be John 8 or John 10 or any other passage. Let me know and I'll be delighted to oblige.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 25 by PinSeeker]

But if all you're saying is that he rebutted their accusation, there is no disagreement; I never would have disagreed with that. As I said, John 8 is exactly the same in that respect.

Fine.

However, it represents an apparent about face of what you said in post 21:

Jesus didn't dispute anything

What say you about that, Pinseeker?

God bless.

There is no "about face." Specifically in John 8, I was talking about Jesus's statement in verse 58 ("...before Abraham was born, I am.") There, he's not "disputing" anything, but merely answering their question.

Now. If you want to TRY to get together and talk about the same thing, whether it be John 8 or John 10 or any other passage. Let me know and I'll be delighted to oblige.

Grace and peace to you, Checkpoint.

Agreed.

I had not realised you had earlier posted about John 8.

My bad; sorry about that.

Grace and peace to you too, Pinseeker.

[PinSeeker]

Agreed.

I had not realised you had earlier posted about John 8.

My bad; sorry about that.

Grace and peace to you too, Pinseeker.

Yes, I'm sorry about any misunderstanding, too. Thank you for your grace and humility, Checkpoint. Those are two things that are severely lacking in this forum. Peace be with you, my friend.

[Checkpoint]

Agreed.

I had not realised you had earlier posted about John 8.

My bad; sorry about that.

Grace and peace to you too, Pinseeker.

Yes, I'm sorry about any misunderstanding, too. Thank you for your grace and humility, Checkpoint. Those are two things that are severely lacking in this forum. Peace be with you, my friend.

Thanks.

Well, my favorite verse is, after all, this one!:

Micah 6:

8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly a with your God.

And blessings to you and yours, my fellow-pilgrim.