JESUS IS NOT GOD

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onewithhim
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JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #431

Post by myth-one.com »

Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:47 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:21 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:11 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:33 pmNo.
But you said "Jesus was fully man while alive on earth," and "according to research by Anthony Bogaert​, a psychology professor at Brock University in Ontario, Canada. Only "about 1 percent of the population​ is asexual,"
source
Asexual – A term used to describe someone who does not experience sexual attraction toward individuals of any gender.
source
So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.
"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."
source
All of which would disqualify Jesus as being "fully man." Or do you have some other definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Actually, none of what you quoted disqualifies Jesus from being "fully man."

If 1% of humans are asexual, then Jesus could be asexual.

And if 78% percent masturbate, then Jesus could be in the 22% which do not do so.

Neither of those challenges disqualify Jesus from being a man.
Not a "man," but "fully a man."

As I asked Rose2020, do you have some definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Man: an adult male human being.

Fully man: a fully adult male human being.

Fully: completely or entirely; to the furthest extent.

So a fully man would be a complete adult male human being.

I don't see where any degree of sexual activity is associated with either definition.

It is your claim that a "fully man" is one that is not asexual and masturbates.

I don't see that in either definition.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #432

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Revelations won in post #423]

No, Jesus Christ is not Jehovah God the Almighty, and the many posts on this thread have shown that. I invite all the folks here to go over some of the posts to get a read on the discussion so far. Jehovah and Jesus are two distinct persons, as one can see by reading even just one or two scriptures, such as Psalm 110:1,2 and Isaiah 61:1,2, just to name a few amongst many. (In the New Testament there are so many it would take several minutes to list them all, such as John 17:3 and John 20:17.)

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #433

Post by onewithhim »

Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 pm Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.
Yes, there is the Father who is God (see John 17:3 where Jesus clearly states that the Father is "the ONLY true God"), then there is His Son, and yes, the Holy Spirit is God's active force by which He accomplishes whatever He wishes to accomplish. But they are not a "trinity." A trinity means that they are all equal. The Son is not equal to the Father....as you say, the Father has GIVEN all authority to the Son. If the Son didn't receive authority from the Father, he would not have any power at all. Jehovah, the Father, has GIVEN Jesus Jesus' position and his power, because Jesus proved faithful even to death (Philippians 2:8-11). And still, all glory goes to the Father, as the Scripture states. Jesus wants it that way. He will eventually hand back the Kingdom to his God and Father, so that Jehovah may be all things to everyone (I Corinthians 15:24-28).

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #434

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:02 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 pm Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.
Then he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman, and no doubt masturbated. Right? Because that's what fully men alive on earth do.

RIGHT?


.
Not all men do that. Only men who have debased thinking and can't control their urges, like animals.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #435

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:09 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:02 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 pm Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.
Then he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman, and no doubt masturbated. Right? Because that's what fully men alive on earth do.

RIGHT?
.
Not all men do that. Only men who have debased thinking and can't control their urges, like animals.

Woof! Woof!

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #436

Post by Miles »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:43 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:47 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:21 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:11 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:33 pmNo.
But you said "Jesus was fully man while alive on earth," and "according to research by Anthony Bogaert​, a psychology professor at Brock University in Ontario, Canada. Only "about 1 percent of the population​ is asexual,"
source
Asexual – A term used to describe someone who does not experience sexual attraction toward individuals of any gender.
source
So Jesus would not fit the category of "fully man" if he was asexual, as you seem to suggest. Nor would he fit that category if he didn't masturbate, because that would put him in the bottom 22% of all the men in the world, the bottom 4% if he lived in Great Britain, bottom 7% if he lived in Germany, and bottom 8% if he lived in the USA.
"78 percent of adults in the world masturbate, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men."
source
All of which would disqualify Jesus as being "fully man." Or do you have some other definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Actually, none of what you quoted disqualifies Jesus from being "fully man."

If 1% of humans are asexual, then Jesus could be asexual.

And if 78% percent masturbate, then Jesus could be in the 22% which do not do so.

Neither of those challenges disqualify Jesus from being a man.
Not a "man," but "fully a man."

As I asked Rose2020, do you have some definition of "fully man" that necessarily ignores his sexual nature?
.
Man: an adult male human being.

Fully man: a fully adult male human being.

Fully: completely or entirely; to the furthest extent.

So a fully man would be a complete adult male human being.

And wouldn't such completeness include all the basic needs inherent in being a male? Sure it would.


The 5 Basic Needs of a Man (from Brookland Baptist Church)

1. His need for admiration and respect.

2. His need for sexual fulfillment.


3. His need for home support.

4. His need for her attractiveness. [being compiled by a Baptist church it's not surprising the attractivness is limited to "her."]

5. His need for a life companion.
source

___________________________________________


PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS | His and Her Needs 8 (from The Father Of St. Joseph)
.
.

His Second Need: Physical Intimacy


Besides being respected for his strength, what do you think nearly every man needs? Another way to ask this question is: what do women often accuse men of only wanting or thinking of? Physical intimacy—conjugal relations, sexual intercourse. This desire is not simply a longing, but man’s authentic, God-given need, and if his need is not addressed by his wife, his marriage will undergo serious tension.
source

_________________________________________


1.06 Categories of Basic Human Needs
(from Nursing Fundamentals 1)

Physical Needs.

These are closely related to body functions and are sometimes referred to as primary or physiological drives.

Physical needs include:

Food.
Water.
Oxygen.
Elimination.
Clothing and shelter for body warmth and protection.
Activity, or sensory and motor stimulation, including.. sex,.. physical exercise, and rest.
source

__________________________________________


It's an adage that has been drilled into our very psyche, "a man has needs". Our sexual desires and the urge to fulfil them are right next to air and food, and we can't live without them. From as early as 1943, Abraham Maslow included sex in the grouping of man's primal physiological needs in his paper A Theory of Human Motivation. According to this holy grail of psychology, one of man's most fundamental requirements for survival is sex.
source

_________________________________________

And note where famed American psychologist Abraham Maslow puts sex on his Hierarchy of needs. Right at its very foundation along with man's other basic needs such as breathing, food, water, shelter, clothing, sleep, and comfort.

...................
Image
source



Point being, sexual needs are very much a part of being "fully a man," and if Jesus was, in fact "fully a man" almost assuredly he would have been sexually attracted to someone and even masturbated."


..

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #437

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:09 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 2:02 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 pm Jesus was fully man while alive on earth, suffering as we do, yet fully God's son too. I have no dilemma, I pray to Him as my Saviour and advocate before the Father. Holy Spirit is our Comforter . The three form God as the trinity. The Father has given all authority to His Son.
Then he must have had sexual desires for someone, man or woman, and no doubt masturbated. Right? Because that's what fully men alive on earth do.

RIGHT?


.
Not all men do that. Only men who have debased thinking and can't control their urges, like animals.
Sorry you consider sexually desiring someone and masturbating debasing. You have my sympathies.


.

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #438

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to Miles in post #436]

Jesus was tempted exactly as we are:
Hebrews 4:15 wrote:
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.



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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #439

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

How is it that you continue to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ as God the Son?

You portray Christ as a mere mortal.

You deny the scriptures that identify him as IMMANUEL OR GOD WITH US.

Christ himself testified that He and the Father are ONE.


Christ himself identified himself as the great I AM for which the Jews sought to stone him.

You deny the scriptures which state that he is our savior and redeemer.

You deny that he has all power in heaven and earth as the scriptures so clearly state.

You state that he is a mere mortal and yet has all judgment of mankind.

You claim that as a mere mortal He has power over death.

He has an everlasting kingdom which shall never be destroyed.

You also deny that he is the only savior and redeemer of all mankind.

The scriptures make it very clear that he is Lord of lords and King of kings.

In view of all of the above, you deny the He is indeed God the Son.

Can a mere mortal have divine glory with God the Father before being born and also bring additional glory to God the Father by that which he performed during this life?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: JESUS IS NOT GOD

Post #440

Post by onewithhim »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:17 am Dear Onewithhim,

How is it that you continue to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ as God the Son?

You portray Christ as a mere mortal.

You deny the scriptures that identify him as IMMANUEL OR GOD WITH US.

Christ himself testified that He and the Father are ONE.


Christ himself identified himself as the great I AM for which the Jews sought to stone him.

You deny the scriptures which state that he is our savior and redeemer.

You deny that he has all power in heaven and earth as the scriptures so clearly state.

You state that he is a mere mortal and yet has all judgment of mankind.

You claim that as a mere mortal He has power over death.

He has an everlasting kingdom which shall never be destroyed.

You also deny that he is the only savior and redeemer of all mankind.

The scriptures make it very clear that he is Lord of lords and King of kings.

In view of all of the above, you deny the He is indeed God the Son.

Can a mere mortal have divine glory with God the Father before being born and also bring additional glory to God the Father by that which he performed during this life?

Kind regards,
RW
We do not deny that Jesus is the Son of God, and more than a mere mortal human. Jesus was indeed "Immanuel," or, the means by which God
Almighty was with us. Jesus represented his Father, as the Scriptures indicate, and he certainly wasn't the God that he represented. (Colossians 1:15) An image is not the thing being reflected.

He said he was "one" with the Father, just as his disciples are "one" with him and the Father. That means that they agree...they are in union in thought and deed. (John 17:21-23).

Jesus never indicated that he was "I Am" of the supposed Scripture in Exodus. At John 8:58 he simply was saying to the Pharisees that he existed before Abraham was born. He was speaking of his longevity, not his identity. The fine Greek that appears there in the original text actually says: "Before Abraham was even born, I existed." (Exodus doesn't even say "I Am." Many Bible translations use the phrase "I Will," NOT "I Am." As in "I Will Become Whatsoever I Will Become." This has been brought out often before on these threads.) Nothing you have presented shows that Jesus is God Almighty.

Yes Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Because Jehovah, the Father, says so. "This is my SON the beloved," said Jehovah. Jehovah's name appears everywhere in the OT that "LORD" appears in all upper case letters. He is the Most High (Psalm 83:18, KJV). Jesus is Lord of all those on earth that are called lords, of course with the exception of LORD Jehovah in heaven.

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