JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You have not responded to all of my points stated in my post 248. Let's hear your response.

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I give an additional references for you to consider:

Revelation 4:
9
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

I present another witness shown by Christ as found in:

Matthew 27:
16
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17
And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Onewithhim, are you taking the position that the eleven remaining apostles in reference to the above are guilty of worshipping a false God???

Also, Christ testified in the next verse that “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” If God the father has given Christ all power in heaven and earth, then how do you claim that he is not indeed God the Son?

You should also carefully consider the following account as as Jesus appeared on another occassion 8 days after appearing to 10 of the witnesses as found in:

John 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

The apostle Thomas on this sacred occassion clearly identified Christ as his Lord and his God.

I honestly do not know what it will take for you to overcome your own personal doubts and unbelief regarding the divinity Christ. The scriptures clearly testify that he is the creator of heaven and earth and yet in spite of all this you still deny that he is God the Son.

Also you have not responded to all of my points stated in my post #248. Let's hear your responses.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Is there anyone who wants to give their opinion on the OP---at the top of the page? I would be very interested to hear it. Thank you.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You asked several questions in your original post. I will respond to one at a time.

Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)


I will be happy to take this statement of Jesus at face value.

Here Christ has revealed some very great truths! Clearly he is testifying that he is only doing what he has seen theFather do.

If Christ is the first born son of the father, then the Father was the first born Son of his Father.

Since Christ has created this earth etc., then his Father has also at some time eons ago also created and organized similar earths.

Since Christ in his ante mortal role as the great Jehovah taught true method of worship, and gave divine laws to guide us in obedience to eternal life, then God the Father likewise also at some earlier period of time
Must have also done the same.

If Christ in the meridian of time pertaining to this world had a physical body provided by His Father via Mary, to house his spirit body, then the Father must of necessity gone through the same process.

If Christ also grew in wisdom and stature with God and man, then the Father also at some predated time must have also gone through the same process.

If Christ had to make the infinite atonement for mortals on this earth by that which he suffered in the garden of gesthemane and on the cross, then it is obvious that the Father also must have done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body at death left his physical body in the tomb, and went and preached the gospel to the spirits in prison, then it is obvious that the Father also has done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body was also reunited with his glorious physical body
Whereupon he in his resurrected state visited Mary and many others and also ascended to his Father in Heaven it is also obvious that the Father also did the same.

Since all power in heaven and on this earth was then given to our resurrected Lord, then it is also obvious that the same was given to his Father by his Father eons of time ago.

The above is in perfect harmony with what Jesus clearly taught in (John 5:19).

My opinion does not mean anything, unless it is in harmony with what the Lord of lords and King of kings taught.

If you have any argument with the above, then your argument is with Christ according to His words.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

You asked several questions in your original post. I will respond to one at a time.

Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)


I will be happy to take this statement of Jesus at face value.

Here Christ has revealed some very great truths! Clearly he is testifying that he is only doing what he has seen theFather do.

If Christ is the first born son of the father, then the Father was the first born Son of his Father.

Since Christ has created this earth etc., then his Father has also at some time eons ago also created and organized similar earths.

Since Christ in his ante mortal role as the great Jehovah taught true method of worship, and gave divine laws to guide us in obedience to eternal life, then God the Father likewise also at some earlier period of time
Must have also done the same.

If Christ in the meridian of time pertaining to this world had a physical body provided by His Father via Mary, to house his spirit body, then the Father must of necessity gone through the same process.

If Christ also grew in wisdom and stature with God and man, then the Father also at some predated time must have also gone through the same process.

If Christ had to make the infinite atonement for mortals on this earth by that which he suffered in the garden of gesthemane and on the cross, then it is obvious that the Father also must have done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body at death left his physical body in the tomb, and went and preached the gospel to the spirits in prison, then it is obvious that the Father also has done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body was also reunited with his glorious physical body
Whereupon he in his resurrected state visited Mary and many others and also ascended to his Father in Heaven it is also obvious that the Father also did the same.

Since all power in heaven and on this earth was then given to our resurrected Lord, then it is also obvious that the same was given to his Father by his Father eons of time ago.

The above is in perfect harmony with what Jesus clearly taught in (John 5:19).

My opinion does not mean anything, unless it is in harmony with what the Lord of lords and King of kings taught.

If you have any argument with the above, then your argument is with Christ according to His words.

Kind regards,
RW

I stopped where you said, "the Father is the firstborn of His Father." That is so far off course in left field that I can't even begin to figure out how you got to that impression. As I have said in the past to you....we must agree to disagree and leave it at that. Fare well.

[onewithhim]

RW, can you perhaps explain why you made such a statement? Perhaps others would like to hear your reasoning. I have said that I myself don't understand it.

[onewithhim]

RW, can you perhaps explain why you made such a statement? Perhaps others would like to hear your reasoning. I have said that I myself don't understand it.

Any comment about this?

[onewithhim]

RW, can you perhaps explain why you made such a statement? Perhaps others would like to hear your reasoning. I have said that I myself don't understand it.

Any comment about this?

Hello?

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

Jesus' words:

John 5:19) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)



Since Christ in his ante mortal role as the great Jehovah taught true method of worship, and gave divine laws to guide us in obedience to eternal life, then God the Father likewise also at some earlier period of time
Must have also done the same.

If Christ in the meridian of time pertaining to this world had a physical body provided by His Father via Mary, to house his spirit body, then the Father must of necessity gone through the same process.

If Christ also grew in wisdom and stature with God and man, then the Father also at some predated time must have also gone through the same process.

If Christ had to make the infinite atonement for mortals on this earth by that which he suffered in the garden of gesthemane and on the cross, then it is obvious that the Father also must have done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body at death left his physical body in the tomb, and went and preached the gospel to the spirits in prison, then it is obvious that the Father also has done the same.

Since Christ’s spirit body was also reunited with his glorious physical body
Whereupon he in his resurrected state visited Mary and many others and also ascended to his Father in Heaven it is also obvious that the Father also did the same.

Since all power in heaven and on this earth was then given to our resurrected Lord, then it is also obvious that the same was given to his Father by his Father eons of time ago.

The above are in perfect harmony with what Jesus clearly taught in (John 5:19).

Consider further that which Christ taught in the following:

Johon 5:
19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32
There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33
Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34
But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

So, Onewithhim, you can see clearly what Christ taught in the additional verses in John 5. I do not ask you to believe me, but you should at least seek to gain deep understanding and believe what Christ himself taught therein.

Remember that it was not I, but the Lord God himself who verily taught such astounding doctrine as contained in John 5.

Consider also that which is testified of in:

Acts:2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

I find that many read the scriptures, but fail to meditate and ponder what is really taught therein. I threw out a number of thoughts relating to what Christ himself taught. I guess the real question is “do you understand in depth and fully believe and accept what Christ really taught in John Chapter 5?

Al I can say is that Jesus herein taught some very thought provoking and soul searching doctrines in this chapter.

For what man knoweth the things of God save by the spirit of God, even so the things of man are understood by the spirit of man.

I wish you the very best in you own personal quest to continue to be edified in obtaining the things God.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

I see Christ's words saying that the Father GAVE him authority, and that alone convinces me that the two are separate Beings. Jesus wouldn't GIVE anything to himself because he would already have it.

Does anyone else have a comment? Does anyone here understand what Rev.Won is saying?