Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

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Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Revelation 20 verse 6 speaks of Christ ruling with others for the 1,000 years. As one if Jehovahs Witnesses I understand ...

a) Jesus will rule over humans beings (not spirits) that are NOT designated as kings
b) The subjects (those not designated as kings) will live on earth
c) Jesus will not relocate from heaven to rule from a specific location on earth but will rather be in heaven ruling over the earth.

Please share your thoughts on any or all of the points. How do you understand Revelation 20:6 as regards to
a) subjects : who ir what will he rule over?
b: location where will the subjects his rule live?
c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule?
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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #2

Post by PinSeeker »

Oh yes, the Millennium. I'm so glad you picked a topic that we're all sure to agree on. :D

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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #3

Post by PinSeeker »

Okay, so in reply:
JehovahsWitness wrote: Revelation 20 verse 6 speaks of Christ ruling with others for the 1,000 years. As one if Jehovahs Witnesses I understand ...

a) Jesus will rule over humans beings (not spirits) that are NOT designated as kings
b) The subjects (those not designated as kings) will live on earth
c) Jesus will not relocate from heaven to rule from a specific location on earth but will rather be in heaven ruling over the earth.

Please share your thoughts on any or all of the points. How do you understand Revelation 20:6 as regards to
a) subjects : who ir what will he rule over?
b: location where will the subjects his rule live?
c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule?
Concerning the Millennium, there are different understandings of it. Shocking, right? :D. Anyway, this does not mean just because of the differences in understanding, that all are true or all are false. Christians generally fall into one of the following camps:
  • 1. Pre-Millinnialism -- folks in this camp are actually subdivided into two sub-camps:
    • a. Historic premillennialism teaches that the church was in the fore-vision of Old Testament prophecy, that the present age of grace was predicted in the Old Testament. It teaches a millennium after the second advent of Christ but is not much concerned with classifying other epochs of history. It is posttribulational.

      n. Dispensationalism teaches that the church is hardly, if at all, mentioned by the Old Testament prophets, that the present age was unforeseen in the Old Testament and thus is a “great parenthesis� in history introduced because the Jews rejected the kingdom. It teaches that there are divisions of time, resulting in God dealing with His people in different ways. It usually embraces the pre-tribulational view. These folks believe that Jesus will physically return to the earth (the Second Coming) before the Millennium, a literal thousand-year golden age of peace.
    2. Post-Millennialism -- these folks believe that the Second Coming of Christ will be the culmination of a literal thousand-year age of blessedness and peace in the Church.

    3. Amillennialism: Folks in this camp believe Scripture affirms the millennial reign of Christ began after his ascension and will continue until Christ's return. This view does not hold that Jesus Christ will physically reign on the earth for exactly 1,000 years, but rather that the Millennium of Revelation 20 is an unspecified span of time leading up to Christ's second coming. They believe that 1,000 is a number that implies completeness and fullness and as such represents -- symbolizes -- the fullness of God's time in bringing Gentiles into Israel and subsequently removing the partial hardening that has come upon Israel... the fulfillment and completion of Jesus's Great Commission.

    4. Preterism: This camp is also divided. Generally, preterism is the eschatological view that the end times prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled.
    • a. Full preterists take an extreme view that all prophecy in the Bible has been fulfilled in one way or another.

      b. Partial preterists takes a more moderate approach, and many partial preterists consider full preterists to be guilty of heresy.
What camp do I fall into? Well, I'm firmly in Camp Number 3 -- Amillennialism, also called Nunc-Millennialism, which better illustrates the fact that folks in this camp do not believe in no millennium, but that it is now as opposed to being merely in the future. Jesus is King now. Not in the future, but now. He is my King; I hope he's yours and everyone else's who read these words. He confirmed to Pilate His Kingship:
  • * Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?â€� And Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.â€� [Matthew 27:11]
This is after He had already said many times throughout his ministry -- even from the beginning -- that the kingdom is here now:
  • * From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.â€� [Matthew 4:17]

    * “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.� [Mark 1:15]
Amillennialists do believe in a literal reign of Christ, along with his resurrected saints. But this reign is a heavenly one rather than on the earth. It is a present-day reality, and it involves all believers, those who are born again and in Christ, and also those who have died and are with Christ. When the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in, and then the partial hardening that is on Israel at present is removed, then Christ will return -- this is the Second Coming. The Millennium will be over, the judgment will occur, the tares will be separated from the wheat, unbelievers will be sent away into "outer darkness," and heaven and earth will be made one -- the new heaven and the new earth [Revelation 21]. We will be co-heirs of the literal, consummated kingdom in Christ, here on earth.

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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #4

Post by ttruscott »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Revelation 20 verse 6 speaks of Christ ruling with others for the 1,000 years. As one if Jehovahs Witnesses I understand ...

a) Jesus will rule over humans beings (not spirits) that are NOT designated as kings
b) The subjects (those not designated as kings) will live on earth
c) Jesus will not relocate from heaven to rule from a specific location on earth but will rather be in heaven ruling over the earth.

Please share your thoughts on any or all of the points. How do you understand Revelation 20:6 as regards to
a) subjects : who ir what will he rule over?
b: location where will the subjects his rule live?
c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule?
Rev 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, [kingly seats] and those seated on them [kings] had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned [as kings] with Christ for a thousand years. The souls of those beheaded seems to fill out the description of the kings in the first sentence in more detail but are not different people...

So, so far we have no mention of who they are kings over, ie, who are their subjects.


5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. Is This is the first resurrection to refer to the people coming to life of verse 4 or to the rest of the dead after 1000 years of verse 5? Since verse 6 tells us that those who share in the first resurrection are blessed and will be kings, I think This is the first resurrection. must refer to those of v4 and not to those of v5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete....

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

So in these verses I find mention of kings but of no subjects and no mention of where anyone is living at this time.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

ttruscott wrote:
So in these verses I find mention of kings but of no subjects and no mention of where anyone is living at this time.
So you believe Christ will rule but have no subjects? Do you think there are any other bible verses that can throw light on the question of possible subjects of this rulership?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

PinSeeker wrote:

3. Amillennialism: Folks in this camp believe Scripture affirms the millennial reign of Christ began after his ascension and will continue until Christ's return. This view does not hold that Jesus Christ will physically reign on the earth for exactly 1,000 years, but rather that the Millennium of Revelation 20 is an unspecified span of time leading up to Christ's second coming. They believe that 1,000 is a number that implies completeness and fullness and as such represents -- symbolizes -- the fullness of God's time in bringing Gentiles into Israel and subsequently removing the partial hardening that has come upon Israel... the fulfillment and completion of Jesus's Great Commission.

What camp do I fall into? Well, I'm firmly in Camp Number 3 -- Amillennialism, also called Nunc-Millennialism, which better illustrates the fact that folks in this camp do not believe in no millennium, but that it is now as opposed to being merely in the future. Jesus is King now. Not in the future, but now.

So you believe earth is currently enjoying Christ's long hoped for "Millennium" reign (which has thus far lasted 2 thousand years)?
ISAIAH 9:7

Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.
Do you believe there is any connection between this reign of peace and happiness mentioned above and the "Lords prayer" ..."thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"?
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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #7

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote: So you believe earth is currently enjoying Christ's long hoped for "Millennium" reign (which has thus far lasted 2 thousand years)?
Yes. You, apparently (along with many others) misunderstand the nature of the Millennium. Christ reigns now, but the kingdom has not come in its fullness. For now, the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together (Romans 8:22) This is the "now and not yet-ness" of the Gospel.
JehovahsWitness wrote: ISAIAH 9:7 -- Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.
Isaiah's prophecy is in no way refuted by Amillenialists like me. It's absolutely true. All of it. As is the rest of God's Word.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Do you believe there is any connection between this reign of peace and happiness mentioned above and the "Lords prayer" ..."thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"?
Absolutely. In this world, right now (since Christ's resurrection and and ascension), there has not been complete peace or anywhere near it. When He returns, there will be. And God's will will be done, all the time, without fail. Right now, we pray for it. We know that it will happen, but for now we live in a broken, full-of-sin world, but one day there will no longer be any sin. We can live as if that's the case now, even though it's not. As I said, Christ reigns now, but the kingdom, while here now, is not yet here in its fullness; creation groans in the pains of childbirth. Again, this is the "now and not yet-ness" of the Gospel.

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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #8

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Revelation 20 verse 6 speaks of Christ ruling with others for the 1,000 years. As one if Jehovahs Witnesses I understand ...

a) Jesus will rule over humans beings (not spirits) that are NOT designated as kings
b) The subjects (those not designated as kings) will live on earth
c) Jesus will not relocate from heaven to rule from a specific location on earth but will rather be in heaven ruling over the earth.

Please share your thoughts on any or all of the points. How do you understand Revelation 20:6 as regards to
a) subjects : who ir what will he rule over?
b: location where will the subjects his rule live?
c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule?
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (I Corinthians 15:22)
All humans who ever lived will be made alive again, or resurrected. All includes both believers and nonbelievers!

But all will not be resurrected at the same time.

There will be an order to the resurrections:
But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:23)

So Jesus will be resurrected first, and that has already occurred.

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians.

This resurrection for all Christians will occur at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming."

The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)
Jesus was the Word made flesh:
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)
Therefore, the deity named "The Word of God" coming from heaven on a white horse is Jesus Christ, or the Word of God.

==================================================

Answers to your questions:

a: who or what will he rule over?

They (The Word and born again believers) will reign or rule over the earth & its inhabitants.

b: location where will the subjects his rule live?

The earth.

c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule

The earth.

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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Answers to your questions:

a: who or what will he rule over?

They (The Word and born again believers) will reign or rule over the earth & its inhabitants.

b: location where will the subjects his rule live?

The earth.

c) location where will Jesus (and his co-rulers) be situated during this rule

The earth.

Who will earths inabitants be? Will they be flesh and blood humans?
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Re: Location o Christ and his co-rulers during the millenium

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 7 by PinSeeker]

I don't quite follow who are the rulers?

Is there a difference between the kingdom and the millenial rule in terms of structure?
RULERS : ie the MILLENIUM RULE is Jesus ruling with all and resurrected righteuous belivers (?) Or all born again Cnristians (excluding Abraham, Moses ect (?)) and THE KINGDOM is Jesus ruling with ???
SUBJECTS: And who are the subjects of Jesus and his corulers (stipulated above)?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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