The Bible rumors

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Elijah John
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The Bible rumors

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?

Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?

Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.

For debate,

How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?

(apologies to DI for the term "rumors" I borrowed for this post ;) )
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

brianbbs67
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #41

Post by brianbbs67 »

Elijah John wrote: Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?

Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?

Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.

For debate,

How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?

(apologies to DI for the term "rumors" I borrowed for this post ;) )
Wow, this one got interesting. I can believe the reports as I can accept evil being annihilated(even potential future evil). Even the Flood. I think we here on Earth hold Ourselves in higher regard than we should. We are , in this world, only minor characters. Sons of Abraham apparently can come from stones. This is all a construct with real consequences. Really, this world is like one of those video games that are so real that they look and feel real, except they are not.

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marco
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #42

Post by marco »

onewithhim wrote:

It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:
Today a Saviour, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. This marks an important event.

The disputed statement: I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise can either, as in the examples given, mark something important (being in Paradise TODAY) or it can uselessly mark the day on which the statement is being made, with no date whatsoever attached to the destination in Paradise. The circumstances, shortage of time and near death, would suggest, to Marco at least, that Jesus was communicating something important rather than using a redundant word. I have no reason to opt for either interpretation other than the dictates of common sense. I would hate to think my entire system of belief depended on this interpretation.

But Bible rumours are built on false interpretations.

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #43

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 39 by Checkpoint]

I have given you well thought-out conclusions that I have come to, and how I reached them. Yet you comment to me as if I was a stuck-up school girl looking for an argument, rather than WHY you would disagree with my conclusions. OK. I am also

Sorry!

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onewithhim
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #44

Post by onewithhim »

marco wrote:
onewithhim wrote:

It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:
Today a Saviour, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. This marks an important event.

The disputed statement: I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise can either, as in the examples given, mark something important (being in Paradise TODAY) or it can uselessly mark the day on which the statement is being made, with no date whatsoever attached to the destination in Paradise. The circumstances, shortage of time and near death, would suggest, to Marco at least, that Jesus was communicating something important rather than using a redundant word. I have no reason to opt for either interpretation other than the dictates of common sense. I would hate to think my entire system of belief depended on this interpretation.

But Bible rumours are built on false interpretations.
I showed you how "today" was used exactly as Jesus used it, in prior times. What he said could VERY WELL have been "I tell you today." Yet you won't even concede to the reasonableness of my argument that defends that interpretation.


:(

Checkpoint
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #45

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 39 by Checkpoint]

I have given you well thought-out conclusions that I have come to, and how I reached them.

Yet you comment to me as if I was a stuck-up school girl looking for an argument, rather than WHY you would disagree with my conclusions.


Thank-you for your open honesty. It caused me to review our posts, and then realise just how non-responsive and inconsiderate my post really was.
OK. I am also

Sorry!
Me too. I apologise to you, unreservedly.

I will soon post the reply I should have then.

Grace and peace to you, onewithhim.

Checkpoint
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #46

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

I think what you say about removing punctuation is a fair idea. It would be better than having a comma in the wrong place. What a great idea to leave it out of Luke 23:43!
Indeed it is..let's go!
I think that then the people that insist that Christ and the thief would go somewhere that day would stop using that verse to prove their erroneous point.
One would hope so, but I think it isn't very likely, sad to say. It has been an integral part of the debate that seems to be set in concrete.

(to be continued)

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #47

Post by Checkpoint »

onewithhim wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 876#991876]Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint
Doesn't one way of looking at the placing of the comma (the way I see it) back up the rest of the scriptures throughout the Bible?
That is one way often taken. The best way, in my opinion and experience.
1) The dead know nothing at all. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

2) The spirit that goes out is simply God's own life-force, His spirit that keeps a person alive. (Psalm 146:4)

3) Paradise is a real place, to be accomplished when Jesus rules over the earth for 1,000 years. (Psalm 37:9,11,29)


In addition to these biblical facts, we know from other passages that Jesus was dead in the grave for 3 days. We know that, after his resurrection, he then walked the land again for 40 days, appearing to his disciples and hundreds of others. So it's safe to say that he and the thief did not go into Paradise that very day that they died.

Do you see that looking at the whole picture is essential, and thus the placing of the comma is important? Also, it is possible to figure out which placing of it is correct. Would you agree?
:smileright:
Three questions, three answers, three yes's!

Oh dear, why didn't I answer your questions last time?!

Sometimes I'm a slow learner.

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

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onewithhim
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #48

Post by onewithhim »

marco wrote:
onewithhim wrote:

It's interesting that the "today" doesn't sound right to you. I figured that you are better-read than you appear to be with this issue. That way of expression was not unique to this passage in Luke's gospel.
Thank you for onewithhim. You give instances from past Scripture where "today" is used to mark some important event or statement. We can visit Luke too:
Today a Saviour, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David. This marks an important event.

The disputed statement: I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise can either, as in the examples given, mark something important (being in Paradise TODAY) or it can uselessly mark the day on which the statement is being made, with no date whatsoever attached to the destination in Paradise. The circumstances, shortage of time and near death, would suggest, to Marco at least, that Jesus was communicating something important rather than using a redundant word. I have no reason to opt for either interpretation other than the dictates of common sense. I would hate to think my entire system of belief depended on this interpretation.

But Bible rumours are built on false interpretations.
You cannot say that what I have written is built upon false interpretations, as I have shown you other examples of the figure of speech that Jesus used at Luke 23:43. Therefore how he said it is not "redundant" or senseless.

Add to that that he didn't go anywhere that day except to his grave, and stayed there for 3 days. So how could he and the thief be in Paradise that day? Let's use reasoning here.

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #49

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Elijah John in post #1]

Many people, unfortunately, love to beat God over the head with their ideas that He is cruel and unjust. They cite slavery and the Flood as examples. I would say that folks don't take the time to really understand what He is talking about when "slavery" is the issue. Most of the time slavery can be compared to a business arrangement. A "slave" can be a hired individual, or he can be an individual working off a debt. There is much to be said about the subject, and it is unfair to say that God condones slavery---like how we look at "slavery" today.

The Flood, unfortunately, took the lives of some innocent children, perhaps many innocent children. But I do not believe that Jehovah took any pleasure in doing so. In fact, I personally believe that all of the young children will be resurrected during Jesus' Millennial Reign. So, "rumors" about His cruelty are misguided.

.

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #50

Post by Scalamilano »

Noah warned the people about the flood, but they did not listen to him. Some laughed at Noah, while others hated him. It is also essential to know that the demons are the same angels who materialized by becoming human and married women in Noah's day. When the flood came, their wives and children died; and those rebellious angels were forced back into the spiritual realm. They had no more place in God's organization but were cast down into Tartarus, a state of deep darkness, cut off from God's light (2 Peter 2:4, 5). They operate under Satan's direction and continue to come into close contact with humans. Although they can no longer materialize, they try to influence men, women, and even children. Part of this happens through the occult. Demons encourage people to destroy each other in ways that defy human reason. It is interesting to discuss swami God topics, but let me tell you about my Bible verse wall art. My bible verse wall art is fantastic and motivational Christian Walls. I think it is the perfect image for your home.
Last edited by Scalamilano on Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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