The Bible rumors

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Elijah John
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The Bible rumors

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Do you believe the Bible rumors about God? The negative ones, like Him condoning slavery, or Him drowning babies in the Flood?

Do you believe rumors against the people in your life that you love?

Do you believe the worst that's said about them? Or the best about them.

For debate,

How can anyone who claims to love God believe the worst things said about him, i.e. the negative Bible rumors?

(apologies to DI for the term "rumors" I borrowed for this post ;) )
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

2timothy316
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #61

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

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Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified. The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.

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Miles
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #62

Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

.
Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified.
Only clarified it for your benefit because you seemed to be under the impression that atheists necessarily share other stances on other issues.

The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.
Don't really care if I, an atheist, am identified as being like Kim Jong Un or not. Mox nix. O:)


.

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onewithhim
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #63

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:57 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:00 am
Miles wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:46 pm
And please don't link us Jehovah's Witnesses with Mormons.
Why not? You're no better than they are, are you? Or are Jehovah's Witnesses better than everyone else?


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No. Who said anything about be better?
Why else would you complain?

It's that they don't teach what we do.
But in many cases they do.
Can you give me some examples of what they teach that we do?

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onewithhim
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #64

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:33 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:57 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:00 am
Miles wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:46 pm
And please don't link us Jehovah's Witnesses with Mormons.
Why not? You're no better than they are, are you? Or are Jehovah's Witnesses better than everyone else?


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No. Who said anything about be better?
Why else would you complain?

It's that they don't teach what we do.
But in many cases they do. And as I see them, JWs and Mormons comprise, in part, a group of Christian outliers that have positioned themselves away from main stream Christianity.
Similarities is not a good reason to dump two groups together and call them the same thing.
Which is why I didn't call them that. :mrgreen:


Would you like it someone linked you to a group that you don't agree with or support what they teach?
Depends on their reason, I guess. And as in the instance here, I feel it can be quite reasonable.
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In this case it is not reasonable if the reason is to paint who people with broad strokes.
If the broad strokes apply it certainly is, which in this case they do.
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.
So lumping religious groups together because of some similarities isn't wise.
If it serves to clarify an issue, why not?


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It's not clarifying anything. What you are is muddying the issue rather than clarifying it, by repeating something that is not true.

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Miles
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #65

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:22 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:57 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:00 am
Miles wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:46 pm
And please don't link us Jehovah's Witnesses with Mormons.
Why not? You're no better than they are, are you? Or are Jehovah's Witnesses better than everyone else?


.
No. Who said anything about be better?
Why else would you complain?

It's that they don't teach what we do.
But in many cases they do.
Can you give me some examples of what they teach that we do?
I didn't bother to look into JW beliefs, but assume they coincide with the following.


From the mouth of the LDS Church itself

"[Mormons] worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ.

Latter-day Saints believe that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving, and they pray to Him in the name of Jesus Christ.

They acknowledge the Father as the ultimate object of their worship, the Son as Lord and Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit as the messenger and revealer of the Father and the Son.
source



From other sources, which I am also assuming JWs agree with.

Mormons believe:

that sin is disobedience to God’s laws

Jesus’ atonement provided immortality for all people.

Theirs is the one true church on the face of the earth.




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Miles
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #66

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:24 pm
Miles wrote:
So lumping religious groups together because of some similarities isn't wise.
If it serves to clarify an issue, why not?


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It's not clarifying anything. What you are is muddying the issue rather than clarifying it, by repeating something that is not true.
As I told 2timothy316 in post 59:

And as I see them, JWs and Mormons comprise, in part, a group of Christian outliers that have positioned themselves away from main stream Christianity.

Which I find to be quite true because:

1. Jehovah’s witnesses believe that God is Jehovah alone while Christianity believes in a Trinitarian God ‘” a God in three separate beings.

2. Jehovah’s witnesses believe that Jesus is God’s (Jehovah) son and completely separate from God; Jesus is also believed to be the archangel Michael. Christianity, on the other hand, asserts that Jesus is the son of God but also God himself as avowed by the Holy Trinity.

3. Jehovah’s witnesses believe that the end of time is now which started happening in a definite time, 1914. While Christianity, though also believe in the end of time, does not know when will that happen, no definite date whatsoever.

4. Jehovah’s witnesses believe in Holy Spirit as God’s active force while Christians think of Holy Spirit as also God himself.
source


And Mormons having done the same except with different issues.

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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #67

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

.
Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified.
Only clarified it for your benefit because you seemed to be under the impression that atheists necessarily share other stances on other issues.

The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.
Don't really care if I, an atheist, am identified as being like Kim Jong Un or not. Mox nix. O:)


.
If an atheist doesn't mind being identified as being like Kim Jong Un then I guess that atheist's family should be worried about being killed by towel with nerve agent on it.

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Miles
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #68

Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:10 am
Miles wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

.
Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified.
Only clarified it for your benefit because you seemed to be under the impression that atheists necessarily share other stances on other issues.

The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.
Don't really care if I, an atheist, am identified as being like Kim Jong Un or not. Mox nix. O:)


.
If an atheist doesn't mind being identified as being like Kim Jong Un then I guess that atheist's family should be worried about being killed by towel with nerve agent on it.
"Like" being the operative word here; not at all. Are you, a believer in JC, worried about being attacked in a Muslim jihad against Americans?


.

2timothy316
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #69

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:52 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:10 am
Miles wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

.
Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified.
Only clarified it for your benefit because you seemed to be under the impression that atheists necessarily share other stances on other issues.

The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.
Don't really care if I, an atheist, am identified as being like Kim Jong Un or not. Mox nix. O:)


.
If an atheist doesn't mind being identified as being like Kim Jong Un then I guess that atheist's family should be worried about being killed by towel with nerve agent on it.
"Like" being the operative word here; not at all. Are you, a believer in JC, worried about being attacked in a Muslim jihad against Americans?
.
There is only one thing I worry about is getting on the wrong side of the One that can destroy both soul and body. (Matthew 10:28)

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Miles
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Re: The Bible rumors

Post #70

Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:17 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:52 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:10 am
Miles wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:04 pm
I know many atheists wouldn't like to likened to Kim Jong Un just because Kim Jong Un believes some of the things atheists do.
And just what is it you think all atheists believe? As far as I know the only thing most atheists have in common is a lack of belief in the existence of god, which doesn't amount to belief, but is simply a position---lack of belief does not amount to belief. Although, a few atheists do go so far as to deny god's existence.

.
Thank you for proving my point. Do you see how suddenly what some atheists believe vs what others believe suddenly is important and you want it clarified.
Only clarified it for your benefit because you seemed to be under the impression that atheists necessarily share other stances on other issues.

The details are important and painting people with broad strokes isn't wise ever. Me as a JW do not want to be identified as a Mormon no more than an atheist wants to be identified as being like Kim Jong Un.
Don't really care if I, an atheist, am identified as being like Kim Jong Un or not. Mox nix. O:)


.
If an atheist doesn't mind being identified as being like Kim Jong Un then I guess that atheist's family should be worried about being killed by towel with nerve agent on it.
"Like" being the operative word here; not at all. Are you, a believer in JC, worried about being attacked in a Muslim jihad against Americans?
.
There is only one thing I worry about is getting on the wrong side of the One that can destroy both soul and body. (Matthew 10:28)
And that's where atheism triumphs. Lacking any reason to take verses like Matthew 10:28 seriously, atheists, and many other non-Christians, can simply brush its dire messages aside and go on our merry way. Image While those committed to its truth suffer in anxious doubt. Image


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