Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?

[2timothy316]

There are some that refuse to accept that Jesus is God based on their beliefs. Yet many of these people still celebrate Christmas. So, is Christmas an act of worship to Jesus? If it is, then why would a person that doesn't accept Jesus as God worship Jesus?

[PinSeeker]

...do you know what the star actually was? It was nothing to celebrate.

Nobody is "celebrating a star," onewithHim. No Christian, anyway. God used stars, you'll remember, in making His covenant with Abraham in Genesis 15, driving the point home to Abraham that He would make Abraham a nation of descendants numbering as the stars -- uncountable by men. The only thing really celebrated -- worshiped -- is God.

The practice of astrology is condemned in the Bible...

The Magi were not practicing astrology, but only following a sign given to them by the Lord. God gave many signs and wonders to His people via natural phenomena throughout Scripture, leading them in different ways on different occasions. You'll remember, I'm sure, that He led His people through the wilderness to the promised land by a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day (the Exodus). Did the Israelites worship fire and clouds? No, of course not. Moses and the Israelites as a whole were not nature worshipers. Neither were the Magi, as they fell down and worshiped Jesus when they gazed upon Him. Christians today follow their example.

So the question to consider is: Was the "star" a sign from God, or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

With respect, it would be a terribly grotesque manipulation of Scripture itself to think the latter.

Grace and peace to you.

[onewithhim]

...do you know what the star actually was? It was nothing to celebrate.

Nobody is "celebrating a star," onewithHim. No Christian, anyway. God used stars, you'll remember, in making His covenant with Abraham in Genesis 15, driving the point home to Abraham that He would make Abraham a nation of descendants numbering as the stars -- uncountable by men. The only thing really celebrated -- worshiped -- is God.

The practice of astrology is condemned in the Bible...

The Magi were not practicing astrology, but only following a sign given to them by the Lord. God gave many signs and wonders to His people via natural phenomena throughout Scripture, leading them in different ways on different occasions. You'll remember, I'm sure, that He led His people through the wilderness to the promised land by a pillar of fire by night and a pillar of cloud by day (the Exodus). Did the Israelites worship fire and clouds? No, of course not. Moses and the Israelites as a whole were not nature worshipers. Neither were the Magi, as they fell down and worshiped Jesus when they gazed upon Him. Christians today follow their example.

So the question to consider is: Was the "star" a sign from God, or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

With respect, it would be a terribly grotesque manipulation of Scripture itself to think the latter.

Grace and peace to you.

Would you please read the posts # 54 & 60? Then we can talk about it some more.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 54 by onewithhim]

heck this out---The star led the astrologers first to KING HEROD (Matthew 2:1-16). Herod wanted to kill Jesus! They then went to find Jesus, and the "star" stopped right above where he was. Was that truly a star, and was it benevolent? (No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star.") YHWH warned Joseph to get down to Egypt to take the little boy out of harm's way. So the question to consider is: Was the "star" a sign from God, or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

Is this something you want to include in your celebration of the good things of Christmas?

Let's check that text more closely, this time.

It itself is sufficient answer to your questions, at least for now.

It just relates what happened, without comment, without commendation, without condemnation.

God is telling us a key part of His story of His Son's human birth and destiny, and how that was received.

Here now is the relevant narrative, from Matthew 2, the NIV translation.

1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi a from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.�

3When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5“In Bethlehem in Judea,� they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:

6“ ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,

are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;

for out of you will come a ruler

who will shepherd my people Israel.’ �

7Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.�

9After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. 12And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

13When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,� he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.�

(I also question the practice of gift-giving [and receiving] associated with Christmas. The astrologers GAVE gifts but didn't receive any, so "exchanging gifts" isn't a factor for defending the celebration. People can GIVE gifts at any time of the year'.

He gave them great joy.

May you always have grace and peace.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 63 by Checkpoint]

I don't understand your point. You said, "He gave them great joy." How does this fit into the narrative of the "wise men," and how does "joy" negate the fact that astrologers who practiced magic arts followed a "star" that wasn't a star but led them directly to a king who wanted to kill Jesus, and then exactly right to the house where Jesus was---stopping overhead, something that an actual star could not do? It was obviously not something that God was involved in. If you say He was, how can you defend that premise?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 42 by onewithhim]

Wouldn't Christians want to look behind all this and think about how God is using this platform to bring the lost into His forever family?

into the highways and gather

Grace and peace to you.

How would Jehovah use Christmas to "bring the lost into His forever family"? Wouldn't He do it with TRUTH? Pure, unadulterated truth? Jesus said he was the truth. No one comes to God except through him. That must mean, must it not?, that Jesus wouldn't get involved with anything that was tainted with falsehoods, and if he didn't get involved with any falsehoods and thus didn't involve himself with Christmas, how could anyone come to the Father through Christmas?

By following the example set by the one who is the Truth, and thus earning the same reputation and the same judgments by those he thus exposed.

Matthew 11:

16 “To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:

17  ‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.�

By following the example of Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 63 by Checkpoint]

I don't understand your point. You said, "He gave them great joy." How does this fit into the narrative of the "wise men," and how does "joy" negate the fact that astrologers who practiced magic arts followed a "star" that wasn't a star but led them directly to a king who wanted to kill Jesus, and then exactly right to the house where Jesus was---stopping overhead, something that an actual star could not do? It was obviously not something that God was involved in. If you say He was, how can you defend that premise?

What you say, and thus your premise, doesn't fit into the narrative.

That is my point.

A point you can't and won't get until you cease presuming "the fact that" about what you say regarding anything in the narrative.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 42 by onewithhim]

Wouldn't Christians want to look behind all this and think about how God is using this platform to bring the lost into His forever family?

into the highways and gather

Grace and peace to you.

How would Jehovah use Christmas to "bring the lost into His forever family"? Wouldn't He do it with TRUTH? Pure, unadulterated truth? Jesus said he was the truth. No one comes to God except through him. That must mean, must it not?, that Jesus wouldn't get involved with anything that was tainted with falsehoods, and if he didn't get involved with any falsehoods and thus didn't involve himself with Christmas, how could anyone come to the Father through Christmas?

By following the example set by the one who is the Truth, and thus earning the same reputation and the same judgments by those he thus exposed.

Matthew 11:

16 “To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:

17  ‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.�

By following the example of Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

I think that following Jesus, the Truth's exemplar, would mean not using anything tainted that might refer to him in any way. I can't see allowing Mithra and Saturn into our homes is witnessing for Jesus.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 42 by onewithhim]

Wouldn't Christians want to look behind all this and think about how God is using this platform to bring the lost into His forever family?

into the highways and gather

Grace and peace to you.

How would Jehovah use Christmas to "bring the lost into His forever family"? Wouldn't He do it with TRUTH? Pure, unadulterated truth? Jesus said he was the truth. No one comes to God except through him. That must mean, must it not?, that Jesus wouldn't get involved with anything that was tainted with falsehoods, and if he didn't get involved with any falsehoods and thus didn't involve himself with Christmas, how could anyone come to the Father through Christmas?

By following the example set by the one who is the Truth, and thus earning the same reputation and the same judgments by those he thus exposed.

Matthew 11:

16 “To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others:

17  ‘We played the pipe for you,
and you did not dance;
we sang a dirge,
and you did not mourn.’

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.�

By following the example of Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.

20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

I think that following Jesus, the Truth's exemplar, would mean not using anything tainted that might refer to him in any way. I can't see allowing Mithra and Saturn into our homes is witnessing for Jesus.

Witnessing for Jesus takes place throughout the year.

We use the tainted "Christmas" time to proclaim and celebrate the one who holds the name it states, Christ, a name this world totally misses or ignores.

Christ is the name scripture attaches to Jesus, that name above all names; Jesus, the very one introduced in the narratives we are now writing about.

What taints the name "Christmas" does not stem from those narratives. Most Christians miss it or ignore it, in favor of what is in the narratives, and the wonderful good news they portend.

May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 68 by Checkpoint]

Saternalia is the reason for the season. Christmas is all made up of whole cloth.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 68 by Checkpoint]

Saternalia is the reason for the season. Christmas is all made up of whole cloth.

Well then, that being the way you see it, what do you think Christians should be doing and saying during the Christmas season?

Grace and peace be to you.