If the Trinity is an eternal truth..

[Elijah John]

If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?

Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.

[Wootah]

If the Trinity is an eternal truth, and God was always Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (even well before the incarnation), why isn't that doctrine found in the "Old" Testament, the Hebrew Bible?

Instead we have "Hear O Israel, YHVH our God, YHVH is One". (Deuteronomy 6.4) And that proclamation was to be recited by YHVH's people every day in prayer, multiple times.

Why does the shema exist?

Did Israel think God was multiple beings? Was it explaining that polytheism is false? Of course not. Jews know YHWH is God.

But ... in the text of the Old Testament are ideas and concepts that we can summarise as 'The two powers in Heaven' that confuse and make God more difficult to comprehend. So the Shema is like a guard rail. It says yes the text speaks of one God, now comprehend the text in that light.

If you google two powers in heaven you will see the many examples.

[Eloi]

God is not difficult to comprehend. HE wants people to know Him, and to know His Son ... out of that depends the everlasting life:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

If the identity of God is uncomprehensible, then His promise is fake because the condition to get it is impossible to do ...

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 3 by Eloi]

God is not difficult to comprehend.

I disagree. Saying he's not difficult to comprehend, we would have to be on par with him intellectually, which (if him being all knowing is true) we are not.

He creates paradise then allows it to fall, acts mad, condemns those he is said to love, then 'offers' his 'son' as a sacrifice?
That itself makes little to no logical sense by human standards.
Christians don't understand it, they accept it. That's an enormous difference.

[Red Wolf]

IMO the translators have greatly helped to support the Trinity.

Look at this verse..........
Hebrews 3:2 KJV
Who [Jesus] was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

The word that is translated as ""appointed"" in this verse, is "poieo", Strong's word #4160. This word, "poieo", is used over 500 times in the Greek New Testament. The usual meaing of "poieo" is "to make, to do". On only one occasion, the above verse Hebrews 3:2, is the word ever translated as ""appointed"" .

IMO Hebrews 3:2 should be translated as ......
Who [Jesus] was faithful to him that made him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

If Jesus was made by God, then he could not be God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

Your post helps explain that God is not three-in-one. Thank you.

[onewithhim]

God is not difficult to comprehend. HE wants people to know Him, and to know His Son ... out of that depends the everlasting life:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

If the identity of God is uncomprehensible, then His promise is fake because the condition to get it is impossible to do ...

Yes, absolutely. If God wants us to get to know Him, which he obviously does according to the Scriptures, He would not be a "mystery." That is a fallacious man-made idea. It is very clear what and who God is.

God = YHWH (Jehovah) (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

He says that it is important to KNOW Him (John 17:3).

He has a Son that He taught, and through whom He created everything (John 5:19; Colossians 1:15-17).


No mystery at all.

[onewithhim]

IMO the translators have greatly helped to support the Trinity.

Look at this verse..........
Hebrews 3:2 KJV
Who [Jesus] was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

The word that is translated as ""appointed"" in this verse, is "poieo", Strong's word #4160. This word, "poieo", is used over 500 times in the Greek New Testament. The usual meaing of "poieo" is "to make, to do". On only one occasion, the above verse Hebrews 3:2, is the word ever translated as ""appointed"" .

IMO Hebrews 3:2 should be translated as ......
Who [Jesus] was faithful to him that made him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

If Jesus was made by God, then he could not be God.

Yes. You make an excellent point, and it harmonizes with all other Scripture.


.

[Checkpoint]

God is not difficult to comprehend. HE wants people to know Him, and to know His Son ... out of that depends the everlasting life:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

If the identity of God is uncomprehensible, then His promise is fake because the condition to get it is impossible to do ...

Yes, absolutely. If God wants us to get to know Him, which he obviously does according to the Scriptures, He would not be a "mystery." That is a fallacious man-made idea. It is very clear what and who God is.

God = YHWH (Jehovah) (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

He says that it is important to KNOW Him (John 17:3).

He has a Son that He taught, and through whom He created everything (John 5:19; Colossians 1:15-17).


No mystery at all.

Do you know, onewithhim, what it really is to know Him; to know God? Do I?

It is not knowing about Him. It is not knowing He is one and not three, or that He is the one true God. It is not knowing He has a unique Son. It is not knowing that He told Moses His name was YHVH.

That is all outward knowledge. We can know all those things, and more, without ever actually meeting Him.

How do we, after-all, get to know a human person? By meeting them, and then spending quality time with them, and by nurturing a growing relationship that could well become close enough to develop into an intimate and/or lasting one.

God is not just one of many human persons, but the divine one and only true God. That means we walk with Him by faith, and not yet by sight.

Nevertheless, we can come to know God on the inside, as we spend time with Him in prayer, in His Word, and in pondering and meditating on it and on Him and His Son.

He must increase; I must decrease.

[PinSeeker]

We see clearly in the Old Testament (Hebrew) -- even from the beginning -- that God is three distinct persons, especially in Genesis 1. Even if that's not accepted by some, it is at the very least indisputable that God is more than one distinct Person:

• "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters." [Genesis 1:1-2 (emphasis added)]
  
  "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..." [Genesis 1:26 (emphasis added)]

John restates this in chapter 1 of his Gospel -- it's actually the primary theme of it in its entirety. This in no way whatsoever disputes or contradicts what God says later in the Pentateuch (though some erroneously persist in insisting that it does):

• "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" [Deuteronomy 6:4]

God -- Jehovah -- is One in three and Three in one. Whether one wants to accept this or not is irrelevant.

Grace and peace to all.