It's Sunday. We see many people going to church. Once there, they socialize, sing, laugh, eat, cry...compare hats, ask where he bought that blazer.
But are they there for the right reasons?
It seems, in many churches these days, it's more of a social club than a place of worship.
I've been to churches where people literally in front of me were talking bad (gossiping) about the people a few pews away.
I've seen people 'hit on' others for dates.
I've seen people cursing immediately afterwards (or before) service. I see people singing their hearts out for 1½ hours or so, but later, you wouldn't be able to tell they were Christian much less part of a church once the service is over.
To be fair, I've also seen much love and compassion. But it seems this is the exception many times more than the rule.
It makes me wonder: are churches today more of a social gathering and less of a place of worship?
What's your opinion?
What's your experience?
Church or Club?
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #51If it is just about worship then churches are really unnecessary. You worship God every moment by sincerely trying to be the kind of person God wants you to be.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #52My own experience as one of Jehovahs Witnesses is not a club... a family compare (Prov 17:17)
As a Christian I live my faith, 7 days a week and love my Christian brothers and sisters as family because we have the same Father and follow the same King.1 TIMOTHY 5:1, 2
To the contrary, entreat him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters with all chasteness.”
JW
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 07#p967107
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viewtopic.php?p=798748#p798748
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #53What does that mean? "I live my faith". What is your faith, and how do you live it 7 days a week, and how and who do define as your "Christian brothers and sisters. Would Joe Biden, a professed Catholic, be your brother? Is he part of your "family"?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:33 am
My own experience as one of Jehovahs Witnesses is not a club... a family compare (Prov 17:17)
As a Christian I live my faith, 7 days a week and love my Christian brothers and sisters as family because we have the same Father and follow the same King.1 TIMOTHY 5:1, 2
To the contrary, entreat him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters with all chasteness.”
JW
RELATEDPOSTS
Do Jehovah's Witnesses "love their neighbours"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 07#p967107
Do Jehovahs Witnesses enjoy racial unity?
viewtopic.php?p=798748#p798748
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #54My faith is belief in Jehovah as the souvereign of the universe and my worship of him as such.
It means I allow bible law and principles to effect my actions, thoughts and decisions every day of the week. That my faith in God and His Word is an integral part if who I am.
See above.
Fellow worshippers of Jehovah God: ie all baptised and dedicated Jehovah's Witnesses.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:57 pm
... how and who do define as your "Christian brothers and sisters.
2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:57 pm
... Would Joe Biden, a professed Catholic, be your brother? Is he part of your "family"?
No.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Post #55And which "bible" law "effect" your actions? Is it the Law set down by "Jehovah", or the "new" laws/doctrine, set down by unknown writers of the NT (writer of Hebrews), and the self professed apostle Paul, and his minions? As the letter J, as in "Jehovah", wasn't invented until around the 16th century, is that the date of Jehovah's birth? And what is the manifestations of your "baptism", that can be seen by the public in general? Since you apparently are "baptized", are you "bon of God", and therefore "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9), or does grace increase the more you sin? (Romans 5:20) Do Muslim's, and "Christians", "worship" Jehovah/Allah/God as sovereign of the universe, and "worship" him in their own man made practices? Why aren't they your brothers?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:59 pmMy faith is belief in Jehovah as the souvereign of the universe and my worship of him as such.
It means I allow bible law and principles to effect my actions, thoughts and decisions every day of the week. That my faith in God and His Word is an integral part if who I am.
See above.
Fellow worshippers of Jehovah God: ie all baptised and dedicated Jehovah's Witnesses.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:57 pm
... how and who do define as your "Christian brothers and sisters.
2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:57 pm
... Would Joe Biden, a professed Catholic, be your brother? Is he part of your "family"?
No.
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #56Those to which I subjects myself at my baptism as a Christian, namely those set out in the Christian Greek scriptures of the bible canon.
No more than a man of 30 with than English name John was born in the 16th century because of the letter J.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
As the letter J, as in "Jehovah", wasn't invented until around the 16th century, is that the date of Jehovah's birth?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Post #572ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
... what is the manifestations of your "baptism", that can be seen by the public in general?
My baptism itself was a public manifestation of my personal dedication. My life as a dedicated Christian is hopefully evident to those that know me. If not then I am happy to be judged by He that is qualified to do so.
2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
... Since you apparently are "baptized", are you "bon of God", and therefore "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9), or does grace increase the more you sin? (Romans 5:20)
I find it best to ask someone what they believe before making presumtions that may seem apparent to you but are in fact considered inaccurate by someone else . I don't believe I cannot sin.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #582ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
... Do Muslim's, and "Christians", "worship" Jehovah/Allah/God as sovereign of the universe, and "worship" him in their own man made practices? Why aren't they your brothers?
I can only state my beliefs on this point ... I dont believe Jehovah is the same God worshipped by all the Abrahamic groups, denominations and religions and I believe presently ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses worship the souvereign of the universe.
See above.
To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...
RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Church or Club?
Post #59Apparently, the shepherds, especially the fat shepherds, who eat the fat of the sheep, and who do not feed or heal the flock, will be fed judgment, and the Lord God, will judge between the sheep, and will set My servant David over them. (Ezekiel 34). I think that you have neither healed, nor sought the lost, for so called Christians would be numbered among the lost.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:34 pm2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
... what is the manifestations of your "baptism", that can be seen by the public in general?
My baptism itself was a public manifestation of my personal dedication. My life as a dedicated Christian is hopefully evident to those that know me. If not then I am happy to be judged by He that is qualified to do so.
2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:06 am
... Since you apparently are "baptized", are you "bon of God", and therefore "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9), or does grace increase the more you sin? (Romans 5:20)
I find it best to ask someone what they believe before making presumtions that may seem apparent to you but are in fact considered inaccurate by someone else . I don't believe I cannot sin.
Per 1 John 3:9, if you continue to sin, you are not "born of God", and are separated from God by virtue of sin. That would put you in tandem with the others who call themselves "Christian", and apparently "profaned" my holy name (Ezekiel 36:20). If one repents, confesses their sin, and born in the spirit, and produces good fruit, they will escape the coming "fire" (Matthew 3). If one returns to sin, they are cut off from God. Keep in mind, that the "brood of vipers" repented of sin and were baptized in water, but warned of the fire to come with out them producing "good fruit". Sin is defined as transgression of the Law. I think you are treading on thin ice.
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Post #60That is true....we LIVE our worship. But the Scriptures indicate that God wants us to gather ourselves together "to incite each other to love and fine works, not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near." (Hebrews 10:24,25)