YHWH

[Wootah]

Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?

[onewithhim]

Peace to you!

I hope you can forgive the intrustion, but I saw something skimming through, and I must correct (or clarify) it.

As God has many names, so is JESUS called
Yeshua/Salvation

"Yeshua" does not just mean Salvation. My Lord's name (Jaheshua) means JAH saves/salvation of JAH. You (or the reader) may already have known this and were just typing quickly... but this is an important part of the name of my Lord. Because He is the salvation OF JAH (of God, the Most Holy One of Israel). He is not JAH, Himself. Nor did He come in some other name.



Scribes and teachers of the law have already tried to hide the name of God in what is written (replacing with the LORD, all caps, and making it easier for error to be accepted by some); and the scribes and teachers of the law have also changed the name of Christ (changing His name to Jesus, which is also not true, and which also hides the name of God, in whose name Christ came... like prophets before Him: EliJAH; JeremIAH; ZedekIAH; etc.)


So I needed to make clear the meaning of the name of Christ (of Jaheshua).

My Lord Jaheshua (meaning "JAH saves/salvation of JAH") came in the name of His Father (JAH).




May anyone who wishes, and anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

(which water is holy spirit, poured out from my dear Lord and given to whomever He chooses, as His Father has given to Him without end)


May you have peace, as my dear Lord gives peace,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks, tam, for that excellent post.

[onewithhim]

I understand YHWH (Jehovah) to be the supreme Being, above all others. This is stated clearly in the Psalms:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

What does this mean to you?


.

[Wootah]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

Doesn't that fact bother you? I still can't see how those that believe Jesus is not God imagine the New Testament as anything other than blasphemous.

[PinSeeker]

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

That would depend on what is meant by "are one" .

• If "are one" is taken to mean equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position then yes, they are contradictory.

• If we take "are one" to mean UNITED while not equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position , then no, the the statements do not contradict each other.

So my answer would be... it depends.

Not true; in neither sense are they contradictory. We agree on your second statement, but regarding the first, two or more persons can certainly be the same in age, rank, knowledge, power, and position (and glory) as other(s), because age, rank, knowledge, power, position, and glory are attributes ascribed to a thing (or things) rather than the thing itself or things themselves. So in neither of these two senses, it does not "depend."

However, there is a third sense of "are one," and that would be in the wooden sense of sameness in person. In this sense (and this sense only), the Father being greater than all and Jesus and the Father being one would be contradictory. But such is not the case; They are different in Person, the same only in essence. This is the distinction the Bible makes very clear. In this sense only does it "depend."

With this in mind, if God is God, He can do anything, including manifesting Himself in as many different ways as He likes, and share perfect unity and fellowship with Himself in each and among each of those manifestations. He could have chosen two manifestations, and He could have chosen any number greater than three. Why did He choose three? Well, I'm sure we all would agree that everything God does He does for a specific purpose. The number is three because the Three serve three specific, all-encompassing roles/functions regarding both Himself and the redemption of His creation, which is what the Bible is all about. Regarding the all-encompassing aspect of this, I'm sure we would all also agree that God never does to little or too much, but always exactly what is needed/required. So, therefore, three is all that was, is, and every will be needed. The three specific roles/functions are as follows:

• Willing/purposing and appointing/electing according to that willing/purposing

• Making possible the redemption of all -- and accomplishing redemption only for the Elect -- through perfect fulfillment of the Law and atonement on the cross

• Quickening of the heart of each individual at the appointed time and sustaining each member of the Elect to the Day of Christ's return and the consummation of the kingdom

God the Father serves the first role, God the Son serves the second role, and God the Holy Spirit serves the third role. Together, the three Persons are Jehovah God, who shares His glory with no one.

Grace and peace to all.

[PinSeeker]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned?

I would say this is only a perception of some, but not really the case. For believers in the triune Jehovah, Jesus is the One through Whom we have access to the Father and because of Whose work we have the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Who keeps us to the end.

Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

Yes.

Grace and peace to you.

[onewithhim]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

Doesn't that fact bother you? I still can't see how those that believe Jesus is not God imagine the New Testament as anything other than blasphemous.

I think that enough has been said on these posts to show that the New Testament does NOT teach that Jesus is God. Do I have to list all the ways we can see what has been corrupted by certain copyists and translators, all over again? It would take several pages. I am guessing that, seeing as you have rejected these posts previously up to now, you wouldn't care much for my reiterating everything that has been said already. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus presented as God Almighty.

.

[onewithhim]

Wootah, you still didn't answer the question. Would you please?

[emilynghiem]

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

That would depend on what is meant by "are one" .

• If "are one" is taken to mean equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position then yes, they are contradictory.

• If we take "are one" to mean UNITED while not equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position , then no, the the statements do not contradict each other.

So my answer would be... it depends.

Not true; in neither sense are they contradictory. We agree on your second statement, but regarding the first, two or more persons can certainly be the same in age, rank, knowledge, power, and position (and glory) as other(s), because age, rank, knowledge, power, position, and glory are attributes ascribed to a thing (or things) rather than the thing itself or things themselves. So in neither of these two senses, it does not "depend."

However, there is a third sense of "are one," and that would be in the wooden sense of sameness in person. In this sense (and this sense only), the Father being greater than all and Jesus and the Father being one would be contradictory. But such is not the case; They are different in Person, the same only in essence. This is the distinction the Bible makes very clear. In this sense only does it "depend."

With this in mind, if God is God, He can do anything, including manifesting Himself in as many different ways as He likes, and share perfect unity and fellowship with Himself in each and among each of those manifestations. He could have chosen two manifestations, and He could have chosen any number greater than three. Why did He choose three? Well, I'm sure we all would agree that everything God does He does for a specific purpose. The number is three because the Three serve three specific, all-encompassing roles/functions regarding both Himself and the redemption of His creation, which is what the Bible is all about. Regarding the all-encompassing aspect of this, I'm sure we would all also agree that God never does to little or too much, but always exactly what is needed/required. So, therefore, three is all that was, is, and every will be needed. The three specific roles/functions are as follows:

• Willing/purposing and appointing/electing according to that willing/purposing

• Making possible the redemption of all -- and accomplishing redemption only for the Elect -- through perfect fulfillment of the Law and atonement on the cross

• Quickening of the heart of each individual at the appointed time and sustaining each member of the Elect to the Day of Christ's return and the consummation of the kingdom

God the Father serves the first role, God the Son serves the second role, and God the Holy Spirit serves the third role. Together, the three Persons are Jehovah God, who shares His glory with no one.

Grace and peace to all.

Dear @JehovahsWitness and Pinseeker:
I have trouble seeing that either of your statements contradicts each other.
This represents the meaning of the three as one.
You can each have distinct perceptions of the one God
yet these both reflect the one God without conflict.

There is only ONE GOD not three.
And there is a distinction between God manifesting in Jesus
and God manifesting as the Holy Spirit.

This is like the distinction between God manifesting as LOVE
and God manifesting as TRUTH and WISDOM.
Both of these distinct manifestations are still the ONE GOD, not several gods for each name of God.

Will this help @Pinseeker
if we use the name of God as Jesus in
various contexts to mean SALVATION and
to mean JUSTICE or GOD'S WORD OR LAWS.

Aren't the LAWS of GOD still GOD
but this is a distinct aspect than, say,
the LOVE OF GOD which is still GOD.
or the GRACE OF GOD which is still GOD.
and the "PHYSICAL" NATURAL LAWS of the UNIVERSE
which are still the ONE GOD made incarnate.

I see this distinction in practice, so that's why I think it helps to distinguish.
When I share God's truth with a fellow CHRISTIAN and we use SPIRITUAL
LAWS OF SCRIPTURE, this is still the same GOD but we use different terms
compared with
when I share God's universal truth with a nontheist and we use
SCIENCE and NATURAL LAWS, this is still the same GOD but we use SECULAR TERMS.

Isn't there a different distinction between
GOD manifested in Jesus for SPIRITUAL SALVATION under SCRIPTURAL LAWS of the CHURCH
GOD manifested in Jesus for EQUAL JUSTICE under SECULAR LAWS of the STATE

These are both the same GOD and God's justice
through Jesus governing both sets of laws.

The distinction is between the manfestations.
The secular laws address the audience of the natural gentiles.
The spiritual laws speak to the church and believers.

Same God, same universal laws.
But there is a distinct manifestation.
Same with manifesting as Jesus or as the Holy Spirit.
Same God, but distinct contexts
because man's thinking is finite and addresses one context at a time
or we get confused what we are talking about "linearly"
This manifestation of God into distinct levels is to
help communicate on the level of man for our minds to focus.

It does NOT MEAN more than one God.
So I agree with you and find nothing wrong with
what you are saying and what JW is saying which
focuses more on the Manifestation of God in the natural
world, and doesn't focus on God as other Christians do,
but IT'S STILL THE SAME ONE GOD.

The JW and other gentiles have a more "secular bias"
in talking about the same God we do as Christian believers,
but it's still the one God. They just don't emphasize the divinity of Jesus the way we do.

(@Pinseeker if I had to explain this as a parable I might
compare secular thinkers as being "color blind"
You and I can see colors or greater spectrum than those who
* cannot distinguish green/red
* can only see black/white
So when these people look at something like God
they may only understand the part that is black/white
or they may blur together reds/greens.
It's still the same ONE GOD we are both trying to describe,.
but those with a secular mindset will only report the black/white.
Can we fault them for their minds designed this way?
I find if we forgive and accept people whose minds think in black/white
they will not longer have need to judge or reject us in return, if we are
not blaming them for this difference in perception. So we are also asking
them to "take it on faith" that we see these greater colors they do not.
As long as we agree to forgive our differences in perception or expression,
we open the door for God to enter in and help us with wisdom and
understanding to bridge that gap and talk about God and God's truth
even though we may or may not be able to change the way we see God.)

[PinSeeker]

I have trouble seeing that either of your statements contradicts each other. This represents the meaning of the three as one. You can each have distinct perceptions of the one God yet these both reflect the one God without conflict.

The simple fact is, Emily, 'A' and 'NOT A' cannot both be true at the same time.

There is only ONE GOD not three.

Right.

And there is a distinction between God manifesting in Jesus and God manifesting as the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between the manfestations.

We're not talking about concepts, Emily. We're talking about persons.

Grace and peace to you.

[Wootah]

Does any trinitarian have an answer as to why only Jesus gets all of the glory and honor, and the Father and Holy Spirit are rarely mentioned? Aren't they all equal (in your estimation)?

Doesn't that fact bother you? I still can't see how those that believe Jesus is not God imagine the New Testament as anything other than blasphemous.

I think that enough has been said on these posts to show that the New Testament does NOT teach that Jesus is God. Do I have to list all the ways we can see what has been corrupted by certain copyists and translators, all over again? It would take several pages. I am guessing that, seeing as you have rejected these posts previously up to now, you wouldn't care much for my reiterating everything that has been said already. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus presented as God Almighty.

.

Imagine claiming to understand the Shema and then following a book with some guy called Fred who took front and centre ahead of God. How are you overcoming that fact?

Sure I think we should look at the copyist and translator errors. Just you and me.