YHWH

[Wootah]

Y - the hand
H - reveals
W - the nail
H - reveals

How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?

[emilynghiem]

....How is anyone that believes YHWH is God able to negate the evidence above that YHWH is Jesus?

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/je ... -is-yahweh

YHWH is the name above all names correct?

Philippians 2:9-11 says — Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to directly confront both pieces of evidence?

I think it is interesting that God has given his name to Jesus. Jesus acts in the name of God. How could that be, if he is the one and only true God?

“…your name which you have given me…”
John 17:11

Dear @1213
Because God, being infinite, and man's perception and language being finite,
it is only natural that God would manifest to man in multiple ways.

God as Love
God as Truth or Wisdom
God as perfect will
God as Life, Nature or Creation/Universe
God as the LAWS of Life, Nature, Creation, Universe Science etc.

Does this negate that there is only ONE GOD as the source of all these manifestations?

Clearly it is for man's benefit and our need to communicate
that we assign TERMS or Symbols to REPRESENT these manifestations
as Aspects we can identity of the ONE GOD.

As God has many names, so is JESUS called
Yeshua/Salvation
Justice (Equal Justice Under Law, Justice with Mercy, Peace and Justice, Restorative Justice)
Lord/Law/Authority of Law
Joy

This is because God manifests on different levels "in relationship with man"
* God as the Father or FIRST PERSON manifesting or relating DIRECTLY to us
* Jesus as the Son or SECOND PERSON manifested in the RELATIONSHIP between us and God
* Holy Spirit as the Comforter or THIRD PERSON which is the RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OTHER PEOPLE

We witness God's love and truth in these three ways of manifesting
directly, in relationship, and indirectly in the relationships between others.

Jesus as JUSTICE is taking God's truth and will and
EMBODYING that into man's world through "Justice" which
joins the laws of man with the laws of God as one.

So this is God made MANIFEST to us through JUSTICE
which links our world on the physical human level to God's Kingdom
which is infinite collective truth and universal laws of life and all nature and creation.

Through this connection with God through Jesus or Justice,
then we establish PEACE in our relations with others, this builds
the church or the body, where society and humanity become
UNITED in perfect harmony as one. That is the MANIFESTATION
of God's love grace and liberating truth in HUMANITY as a whole
for PEACE on EARTH or the Kingdom of God realized in the world collectively.

All three levels are still manifestation of the ONE GOD.
It is just because of man's limits, our finite individual capacity,
and our linear language that we express God in these different ways
to try to "make sense" of God.

[onewithhim]

Jesus said that the one God was only the Father. According to Jesus, there are NOT three Gods in one or three Persons in one God.

In prayer to the Father: "And this is [means] life eternal, that they might know THEE the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

.

[onewithhim]

That doesn't clearly answer the question, emily.

.

[emilynghiem]

That doesn't clearly answer the question, emily.

.

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

[emilynghiem]

That doesn't clearly answer the question, emily.

.

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

@onewithhim
As for God's truth and perfect will
manifesting in man's earthly realm
in the form of JUSTICE or JESUS embodied in the laws,
what issue do you have with God's perfect will or justice
embodied in man?

Are you worried about people taking "Jesus" or
"Authority of Equal Justice under Law"
OUT OF CONTEXT and "deifying" this as
equal to or greater than God? Is that what you question?
because there is no need to do that.

I would agree with you it makes no sense to try to say
that the limited application of God through JUSTICE/JESUS
is in any way meant to be glorified above God
when this is a specific manifestation.

The reason I can see and understand WHY people place
SUCH IMPORTANCE on Jesus as Justice is that it is our
one way of ESTABLISHING what "we know of God"
We can AGREE what is justice in each given situation.
So humans place huge stake in JUSTICE as their
way of establishing common agreements for
peace and security in relationships.
Humans value Justice to make sure people are on the same page.
That's just what we need to have secure relationships.

Does that make sense? That it's because of people's needs
in relating to each other in a civil society that we place
so much emphasis on Justice which is Jesus authority.

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

That would depend on what is meant by "are one" .

• If "are one" is taken to mean equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position then yes, they are contradictory.

• If we take "are one" to mean UNITED while not equal in age, rank, knowlege, power and position , then no, the the statements do not contradict each other.

So my answer would be... it depends.

[tigger 2]

When Bible writers write that a number of persons are “one,” they consistently mean it in a figurative sense.

For example, Paul includes himself and Apollos in a “oneness”: “He that plants [Paul] and he that waters [Apollos] are one” - 1 Cor. 3:6, 8. Obviously Paul does not consider himself literally one person (or any other literal “one”) with other persons. However, he, as many other Bible writers do, considers himself as “one” with others in a figurative sense.

Yes, Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose.” Here’s how one respected trinitarian reference book states it:
“‘One’ also expresses the unity between Christ and the Father (Jn 10:30), the union between believers and the Godhead, and the unity which exists among Christians (Jn 17:21; Gal. 3:28). ‘One’ further expresses singleness of purpose” - p. 844, New Bible Dictionary, (2nd ed.), 1982, Tyndale House Publ.

However, since we are concerned with a scripture written by John, we need to be assured that John (and even more specifically that Jesus as quoted by John) uses this figurative sense of “one” for groups of individuals.

Therefore, let’s examine John 17:22. “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: “the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.”)

Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in “will” and “purpose” with God. That is, they agree with and carry out the Father's will.

Notice that Jesus clearly defines his being “one” with his Father as being in the very same sense that he wants certain Christians to be “one”: “just as we are one” (NASB). There can be no doubt, then, that John 10:30 does not mean Jesus and the Father are equally God, but that, just as certain Christians were “one” in will and purpose so “the Father and I are one [in will and purpose].”

Although they have the same will and purpose as God, it is because they willingly and totally accept and conform to God’s will and purpose and take them as their own. God does not conform to their wills but they to his! This is exactly the same way that Christ is one in will with the Father (who alone is God) - Analyze John 6:38 (compare Luke 22:42 and Mark 14:36.)

Bible Greek expert Joseph H. Thayer tells us “one” can mean
“to be united most closely (in will, spirit), Jn x.30 [John 10:30]; xvii.11, 21-23 [John 17:11, 21-23]” - p. 186, Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Baker Book House, tenth printing, August, 1984.

Commenting on John 10:30, J. H. Bernard, D.D. says in A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel According to St. John:
“A unity of fellowship, of will, and of purpose between the Father and the Son is a frequent theme in the Fourth Gospel..., and it is tersely and powerfully expressed here; but to press the words so as to make them indicate identity of ousia [Greek for ‘substance,’ ‘essence’], is to introduce thoughts that were not present to the theologians of the first century."

Even the very trinitarian New Testament Greek scholar W. E. Vine when discussing the Greek word for “one” says: “(b) metaphorically [figuratively], union and concord, e.g., John 10:30; 11:52; 17:11, 21, 22....” - An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, p. 809.

Trinitarian Professor William Barclay writing in his popular Daily Study Bible Series, The Gospel of John, Vol. 2, The Westminster Press, 1975, p. 76:
"When Jesus said: ‘I and the father are one,’ he was not moving in the world of philosophy and metaphysics and abstractions; he was moving in the world of personal relationships. No one can really understand what a phrase like ‘a unity of essence’ means; but any one can understand what a unity of heart means. Jesus’s unity with God came from the twin facts of perfect love and perfect obedience. He was one with God because he loved and obeyed him perfectly....”

Finally, we need to be aware that the word “one” at John 10:30 and 17:22 is the neuter form hen (or en). The two other forms for “one” are mia, which is the feminine form, and heis, the masculine form. Those who insist that John 10:30 means “the Father and I are one God” are clearly wrong as shown by New Testament Greek grammar alone. “God” in New Testament Greek is always masculine and must take masculine forms of adjectives, pronouns, etc. in agreement (see Mark 12:29, 32; 1 Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:4-6 in interlinear Bibles).

Or, as Dr. Marshall puts it in one of his basic NT Greek grammar rules:
“Adjectives must agree with the nouns they modify in number, gender,...and case”. - p. 25, Rule 7, New Testament Greek Primer, Alfred Marshall, Zondervan Publishing, 1978 printing. (Compare 1
Cor. 3:8 in interlinear Bible [esp. note footnote in The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English] with NIV; NAB; LB; and CBW.)

Therefore, the use of the neuter “one” (hen) at John 10:30 shows “one God” could not have been intended by Jesus but instead shows “metaphorically, union and concord”! We may have gender irregularities when someone is described figuratively (“metaphorically”) such as “he is a Rock” or “Jesus is the Lamb,” but when he is being literally described we must have gender agreement.

If we insist on supplying an “understood” ‘God,’ it must be at a place which uses the masculine form of “one” (heis) in gender agreement (cf. Mark 10:18; Ro. 3:30). Trinitarian scholar Robert Young commented on this knowledge of the word “one” at John 10:30 in his Young’s Concise Critical Bible Commentary:
“The particle en [hen] being of the neuter gender, can hardly signify ‘one being, i.e. one God,’ but rather ‘one in will, purpose, counsel...” - p. 62, Baker Book House, 1977.

The very trinitarian Bible study reference book, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, agrees with trinitarian Young (above) in its discussion of John 10:30.

Truly, then, there is absolutely no evidence for a “trinitarian” interpretation at John 10:30. In fact, the real meaning shows Jesus is not God!

It’s interesting that some trinitarian scholars apparently (inadvertently?) admit that Gal. 3:20 shows God to be one person.

You should be aware, however, that some trinitarian Bibles translate Gal. 3:20 as “a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.” - NASB. The underlined words (“party” and “only”) are not in the original text, but certain trinitarians insist that something like “party” has to be understood in order for God to be three persons [a “party”] and not just one person.

However, even some trinitarian translators don’t believe such a translation of Gal. 3:20 is correct. For example, the Roman Catholic New American Bible (1970) renders Gal. 3:20 as:
“Now there can be no mediator when only one person is involved; and God is one [heis - masculine singular].”

And the highly trinitarian Good News Bible (GNB) renders it:
“a go-between is not needed when only one person is involved; and God is one.” - also TEV.

Even the trinitarian The Amplified Bible, which often goes to incredible lengths in its attempt to produce trinitarian “proof” scriptures, renders Gal. 3:20 as:
“there can be no mediator with just one person. Yet God is [only] one PERSON.”

And yet the trinity doctrine states that God is “one God in three persons”! Isn’t it odd that these trinitarian scholars admit that this scripture shows God to be one person?

[onewithhim]

That doesn't clearly answer the question, emily.

.

Are you okay with John 10:29-30
where Jesus says both things are true at
the same time:
That the FATHER is GREATER THAN ALL
And HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Are we in agreement that these
do not contradict each other?

No they are not contradictatory. We have seen that to be "one" means to be in agreement with, just as Christ's disciples are "one" with him. (John 17:21-23) It does not mean that God, Christ and the disciples are all God, right?

Therefore, if Jesus AGREES with a statement that concerns his Father and God, then he would absolutely agree with the scriptural statement that "the Father is greater than all." Jesus is not as great as the Father, and he agrees with that.

.

[onewithhim]

When Bible writers write that a number of persons are “one,” they consistently mean it in a figurative sense.

For example, Paul includes himself and Apollos in a “oneness”: “He that plants [Paul] and he that waters [Apollos] are one” - 1 Cor. 3:6, 8. Obviously Paul does not consider himself literally one person (or any other literal “one”) with other persons. However, he, as many other Bible writers do, considers himself as “one” with others in a figurative sense.

Yes, Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose.” Here’s how one respected trinitarian reference book states it:
“‘One’ also expresses the unity between Christ and the Father (Jn 10:30), the union between believers and the Godhead, and the unity which exists among Christians (Jn 17:21; Gal. 3:28). ‘One’ further expresses singleness of purpose” - p. 844, New Bible Dictionary, (2nd ed.), 1982, Tyndale House Publ.

Yes, this is exactly what I have been trying to get across. Good post, tigger.

[tam]

Peace to you!

I hope you can forgive the intrustion, but I saw something skimming through, and I must correct (or clarify) it.

As God has many names, so is JESUS called
Yeshua/Salvation

"Yeshua" does not just mean Salvation. My Lord's name (Jaheshua) means JAH saves/salvation of JAH. You (or the reader) may already have known this and were just typing quickly... but this is an important part of the name of my Lord. Because He is the salvation OF JAH (of God, the Most Holy One of Israel). He is not JAH, Himself. Nor did He come in some other name.



Scribes and teachers of the law have already tried to hide the name of God in what is written (replacing with the LORD, all caps, and making it easier for error to be accepted by some); and the scribes and teachers of the law have also changed the name of Christ (changing His name to Jesus, which is also not true, and which also hides the name of God, in whose name Christ came... like prophets before Him: EliJAH; JeremIAH; ZedekIAH; etc.)


So I needed to make clear the meaning of the name of Christ (of Jaheshua).

My Lord Jaheshua (meaning "JAH saves/salvation of JAH") came in the name of His Father (JAH).




May anyone who wishes, and anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"

(which water is holy spirit, poured out from my dear Lord and given to whomever He chooses, as His Father has given to Him without end)


May you have peace, as my dear Lord gives peace,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy