Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

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Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

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Post by Revelations won »

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my “take� on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my “take� on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour�

Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation
.


Isaiah 26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.�


Matthew 27:52-53 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



Exodus 3:14 God calls himself “I AM� “3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.�


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was “I AM�. 54 “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM
.�


Exodus 6:3 “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.�


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.�


1Corinthians 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.�


Hebrews 5:8-9 “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
�


Psalms 118:22-24 “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23
This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.�





Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.�


John 10:1-11 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6
This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.�


Hebrews 2:8-11 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.�


John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.�


Colossians 2:8-14 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;�


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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #221

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Tam,

We should all remember that :

The Christ asked the disciples “whom say men that I am?” Various answers were given. He then directed the question to the disciples.

Peters answer was clear and direct “Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God”. Peters answer was clearly not one concluded by deductive reasoning for as Christ so clearly attested , “Blessed art thou Simon Bar jonah for flesh and blood hath not revealed this into thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

Thus only by the eternal principle of direct revelation only could Peter know the answer.

Tam responded:

But is this not also what I have testified to: that Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.

How then is that a mere creed?

My response: I can agree with you that “Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.” I, in no way intended to imply that this was a creed.

You said: “The trinity is a creed.”

My response: On this point I also agree with you.

Believing what Christ has said about Himself, believing the same revelation that was given to Peter, that is not a creed.

My response: On this point also I would agree. I am sorry if you misunderstood the point I was making. I do not recall stating that this revelation of God to Peter was a creed.

I want to also point out that you asked for a scriptural discussion:
I challenge the JW’s or Any one else who can refute each and every scripture I have used as evidence, to prove that Christ is not the great Jehovah, please feel free to present your debate showing that all the scriptures I have used to be false or wrong. I do not need philosophical or private interpretations. Please provide other scriptures to prove an opposing view.
You asked for scriptures to prove an opposing view, so that is what you received. If you wanted a discussion on a revelation, then you would need to provide the revelation. At that point, I would still do as my Lord has taught me to do: test the "inspired expression" the message; the claim. Test of course against Him (His word; ask Him), and test against love (for God is love, and what comes from Him is also love).

You should clearly understand that by your very creeds that you must rely on conclusions derived by the application of deductive reasoning.
What creed are you referring to please?


My response: I gather from your response that you do not agree with sectarian position that the heavens are sealed and that there can be no further revelation and scripture. Is this correct?

Modern sectarian Christianity is vastly a mass of confusion, because there is virtually no agreement on who or what they worship, or what is required for salvation, which has resulted in the formation of thousands of different sects. The concept of “One Lord, one faith and one baptism is non existent.


Your response: Sure, but I am not part of that religion. That religion is the one that comes up with the creed - aka - the trinity.

My response: We are in agreement on this point also as I now understand that you also do not accept the trinity creed.

My position is that “we believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal and that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God.”

Your response: I have no problem with that position, but that does not mean accept whatever someone claims. I personally must do what my Lord has taught me I must do: test the 'inspired expression'.

In the third century A.D. hundreds of clerics by deductive reasoning, have after much argument declared that the heavens are now closed and that there can be no further revelation from God.

Your response: I don't know how they came to their conclusion, but their conclusion is not true.

My response: On this issue we are also in agreement.

I would ask, wherein does puny man have any right to place a “gag order upon the creator?”

Your response:

He does not, but I never claimed that he did. I would be the last person to suggest that God or His Son can no longer speak or teach. Christ is the Living Word of God. He speaks; He teaches; He calls His sheep by name and they listen to His voice.

My response:

It appears that we are also in agreement on this important point of doctrine.

As you said “Christ is the Living Word of God. He speaks; He teaches; He calls His sheep by name and they listen to His voice.” Any revelations from Jesus Christ given in these latter days are certainly of extreme importance to all mankind. Can you point me to the records which contain his words and all that he has taught in the present time?


Thus by your own creeds you admit that you cannot have the testimony of Jesus, for the very “testimony of Jesus” is obtained by “the spirit of prophesy” or revelation.


Your response: I do not know where you are getting this from. I do not think I have said anything that could lead you to this conclusion about me.

My response: My apologies, I thought you were a part of another sect. For clarification would you kindly identify what religious faith you espouse?


The scribes and pharisees in Christ’s day walked in blindness at noonday because they could not accept new revelation and commandments as then given by the Lord. Does not this very condition and attitude exist in our day as well?

Your response: I’m not sure this is the reason they walked in blindness at noonday, but yes, the condition of blindness does exist in our day as well.

My response: Perhaps you can share your knowledge as to why this condition of spiritual blindness exists in our day?

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #222

Post by tam »

Peace to you RW,

[Replying to Revelations won in post #222]
As you said “Christ is the Living Word of God. He speaks; He teaches; He calls His sheep by name and they listen to His voice.” Any revelations from Jesus Christ given in these latter days are certainly of extreme importance to all mankind. Can you point me to the records which contain his words and all that he has taught in the present time?
Like a book of some sort? If so, then no, I know of no such record. Nor is it necessary, since Christ is a living person, and can speak to us Himself. On need only listen to Christ Jah'eshua, the LIVING Word of God, who is alive and who speaks and who has promised to lead His sheep into all truth.

Perhaps you can share your knowledge as to why this condition of spiritual blindness exists in our day?
I have no knowledge, dear RW. I can share what I received from my Lord on the matter, but the knowledge is His. I had read your post just before driving to work yesterday, so I was thinking about your question on the drive. And the simplest answer that I could give is that such ones are not looking to Christ. As I was thinking about this, my Lord reminded me of His counsel to buy eye salve from Him, so that we can see.


I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Rev 3:18


Note that it is from Christ (not religion, not religious leaders, not written records, not anyone else)... just Christ... from whom we must buy salve for our eyes so that we can see. So that we can see in truth, so that we can see with the eyes that HE gives us.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #223

Post by onewithhim »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:02 am Dear Tam,

We should all remember that :

The Christ asked the disciples “whom say men that I am?” Various answers were given. He then directed the question to the disciples.

Peters answer was clear and direct “Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God”. Peters answer was clearly not one concluded by deductive reasoning for as Christ so clearly attested , “Blessed art thou Simon Bar jonah for flesh and blood hath not revealed this into thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

Thus only by the eternal principle of direct revelation only could Peter know the answer.

Tam responded:

But is this not also what I have testified to: that Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.

How then is that a mere creed?

My response: I can agree with you that “Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.” I, in no way intended to imply that this was a creed.

You said: “The trinity is a creed.”

My response: On this point I also agree with you.

Believing what Christ has said about Himself, believing the same revelation that was given to Peter, that is not a creed.

My response: On this point also I would agree. I am sorry if you misunderstood the point I was making. I do not recall stating that this revelation of God to Peter was a creed.

I want to also point out that you asked for a scriptural discussion:
I challenge the JW’s or Any one else who can refute each and every scripture I have used as evidence, to prove that Christ is not the great Jehovah, please feel free to present your debate showing that all the scriptures I have used to be false or wrong.

Kind regards,
RW
I have refuted much of what you have presented....enough to throw out the ridiculous idea that Jesus is Jehovah. Yet you will not accept the fact that I have done so. I have commented many times on this thread and have shown that they could not possibly be the same Person. Why do you want me to repeat myself ad nauseum?

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #224

Post by onewithhim »

onewithhim wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:26 pm
Revelations won wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:02 am Dear Tam,

We should all remember that :

The Christ asked the disciples “whom say men that I am?” Various answers were given. He then directed the question to the disciples.

Peters answer was clear and direct “Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God”. Peters answer was clearly not one concluded by deductive reasoning for as Christ so clearly attested , “Blessed art thou Simon Bar jonah for flesh and blood hath not revealed this into thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

Thus only by the eternal principle of direct revelation only could Peter know the answer.

Tam responded:

But is this not also what I have testified to: that Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.

How then is that a mere creed?

My response: I can agree with you that “Jaheshua is the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God.” I, in no way intended to imply that this was a creed.

You said: “The trinity is a creed.”

My response: On this point I also agree with you.

Believing what Christ has said about Himself, believing the same revelation that was given to Peter, that is not a creed.

My response: On this point also I would agree. I am sorry if you misunderstood the point I was making. I do not recall stating that this revelation of God to Peter was a creed.

I want to also point out that you asked for a scriptural discussion:
I challenge the JW’s or Any one else who can refute each and every scripture I have used as evidence, to prove that Christ is not the great Jehovah, please feel free to present your debate showing that all the scriptures I have used to be false or wrong.

Kind regards,
RW
I have refuted much of what you have presented....enough to throw out the ridiculous idea that Jesus is Jehovah. Yet you will not accept the fact that I have done so. I have commented many times on this thread and have shown that they could not possibly be the same Person. Why do you want me to repeat myself ad nauseum?
:)

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #225

Post by Revelations won »

by tam » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:41 pm
Peace to you RW,

[Replying to Revelations won in post #222]
As you said “Christ is the Living Word of God. He speaks; He teaches; He calls His sheep by name and they listen to His voice.” Any revelations from Jesus Christ given in these latter days are certainly of extreme importance to all mankind. Can you point me to the records which contain his words and all that he has taught in the present time?

My response to your first question:

Dear Tammy,
I have by no means taken your deep and serious questions lightly. Your questions in your last post are extremely thought provoking, of deep import and the answers thereof to be fully understood will require an open mind and an open heart that will listen to the deeper things of the spirit.

I will preface my answers with the words of the prophet Amos.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

As you powerfully stated “Any revelations from Jesus Christ given in these latter days are certainly of extreme importance to all mankind.”

My response: I agree with you completely on this point.

Perhaps the big question is “ are we humble enough to be fully prepared to accept the revelations of Jesus Christ in our day?”

Like a book of some sort? If so, then no, I know of no such record. Nor is it necessary, since Christ is a living person, and can speak to us Himself. On need only listen to Christ Jah'eshua, the LIVING Word of God, who is alive and who speaks and who has promised to lead His sheep into all truth.

My response: Not just one book, but several for starters….

You said:

Perhaps you can share your knowledge as to why this condition of spiritual blindness exists in our day?

My response:

Your question highlights one of the major problems society faces today. The reason why spiritual blindness was a problem in the early history of the world, and during the time of Christ’s ministry, but most importantly to us in our day is very clear. The fundamental cause of spiritual blindness is sin. The scriptures make it very clear that the spirit of the Lord will not dwell in unholy temples (I.e. our bodies). The second issue is a lack of genuine and complete repentance.

To further answer you question, I sometime feel that we all perhaps in most cases forget that the “Lord is no respecter of persons”.

Can you list one thing that would limit you or anyone from receiving revelation as much as any of the prophets in OT and NT times? If so then God is a respecter of persons.

Do you remember the time when Jesus revealed something new and those hearing his words responded with “this is a hard saying, who can receive it”. The scripture records that they were apparently unwilling to receive his new teaching and that day “there were many who followed not after him any more”.

I guess what I am trying to say is that New truths or additional truth’s or divine light and knowledge are extremely difficult for many to accept and follow. Others may reject new truth because they fail to examine the contents or source in and unbiased manner or the source thereof. Others may rely on and trust in the arm of flesh instead of diligently asking God for answers.

You said:

I have no knowledge, dear RW. I can share what I received from my Lord on the matter, but the knowledge is His. I had read your post just before driving to work yesterday, so I was thinking about your question on the drive. And the simplest answer that I could give is that such ones are not looking to Christ. As I was thinking about this, my Lord reminded me of His counsel to buy eye salve from Him, so that we can see.


I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Rev 3:18

The KJV reads: Revelation 3:
18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Note that it is from Christ (not religion, not religious leaders, not written records, not anyone else)... just Christ... from whom we must buy salve for our eyes so that we can see. So that we can see in truth, so that we can see with the eyes that HE gives us.

My response:

Thank you for your above comments on. I think one of the most powerful instructions and challenges for each of us is found in James 1:James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7
For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I hope the above replies may give some food for serious thought and insight.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #226

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

Thank you for your replies.

1. According to your responses you believe that there are two creators of all things.

2. According to you response you believe that there are two Saviors.

3. According to your response you deny that there is one name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

4. According to your response the atonement of Christ was not needed for the salvation of man.

5. According your response Jesus is not Lord of lords and King of kings.

6. According to your response there are two names under heaven whereby man can be saved.

Can you clearly explain your position on each of the above six (6) issues.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #227

Post by onewithhim »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:20 am Dear Onewithhim,

Thank you for your replies.

1. According to your responses you believe that there are two creators of all things.

2. According to you response you believe that there are two Saviors.

3. According to your response you deny that there is one name under heaven whereby man can be saved.

4. According to your response the atonement of Christ was not needed for the salvation of man.

5. According your response Jesus is not Lord of lords and King of kings.

6. According to your response there are two names under heaven whereby man can be saved.

Can you clearly explain your position on each of the above six (6) issues.

Kind regards,
RW
I have already explained very clearly my position of these things, and it is clear that you have either not read my comments or you have misunderstood them. None of the things you have written above are true, in the way that you are trying to say.

1) There are two Creators only in the sense that one of them is the SOURCE of all power and the other is the MEANS BY WHICH the One with the power creates. Why is that so impossible for you to understand?

2) There are two Saviors only in the sense that one of them is the SOURCE of power and authority and salvation (He says how men are to be saved), and the other is the MEANS BY WHICH Jehovah saves. He said that we have to accept what His Son has done. If He didn't say so, the Son wouldn't have come here.

3) There is the name "Jehovah" whereby we must be saved, according to the book of Joel (Joel 2:32), in the original Hebrew tongue. Acts 2:21 reiterates that fact, because it quotes Joel 2:32. In another place the scripture says that we must also call on the name of Jesus. How can this be? Because Jehovah has said that we have to accept what Jesus did for us; this goes hand-in-hand with calling on Jehovah's name as the Most High and the Source of all power and authority. How much clearer can I be?

4) WHERE do you get the idea that I said that the atonement of Christ is not necessary for salvation?? I'm very curious about that one!

5) I know that Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings because that is what he is called throughout the Scriptures (e.g., Psalm 2:6-12; Revelation 19:16).

6) Yes, there are two names under heaven whereby we must be saved. See #2 and #3 above.

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #228

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

Thank you for your responses\ as quoted below:

“I have already explained very clearly my position of these things, and it is clear that you have either not read my comments or you have misunderstood them. None of the things you have written above are true, in the way that you are trying to say.

1) There are two Creators only in the sense that one of them is the SOURCE of all power and the other is the MEANS BY WHICH the One with the power creates. Why is that so impossible for you to understand?

My response:

I can see your point in part. I understand clearly that God the Father created the earth under His direction by God his son as so duly recorded in Genesis chapter 1.


2) There are two Saviors only in the sense that one of them is the SOURCE of power and authority and salvation (He says how men are to be saved), and the other is the MEANS BY WHICH Jehovah saves. He said that we have to accept what His Son has done. If He didn't say so, the Son wouldn't have come here.

My response:

Your answer and view expressed are lacking in consistency. As I have pointed out before your interpretation is that Jehovah is God the Father. This is not consistent with the scriptures. If God the Father created the earth by his son Jesus Christ as the scriptures so testify and if as the scriptures show that Jehovah created the earth, then obviously they are one and the same.

Proverbs 26:10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



Ephesians 3:
9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Colossians 1:
15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

(We observe in the above that Christ is the first born of every creature, that Christ created all things, and that in Christ should all fulness dwell.)

Hebrews 1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


Revelation 14:
7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

(So it is very obvious that Christ was the first born son of God the Father and it is obvious that the worlds were created by him, it is also obvious that HE HAD GLORY WITH THE FATHER before the world was, it is obvious that he was the word of God and was the creator under the direction of the Fathers plan, it is obvious that he is the great I AM, it is obvious that at some point it was also revealed by divine revelation after several thousand years that he was to be also known as Jehovah and it is also obvious that he who created the earth, then in the meridian of time that the “Word of God” came unto his own in the flesh as the very Immanuel or Jesus Christ the only begotten of the Father in the flesh.)

3) There is the name "Jehovah" whereby we must be saved, according to the book of Joel (Joel 2:32), in the original Hebrew tongue. Acts 2:21 reiterates that fact, because it quotes Joel 2:32. In another place the scripture says that we must also call on the name of Jesus. How can this be? Because Jehovah has said that we have to accept what Jesus did for us; this goes hand-in-hand with calling on Jehovah's name as the Most High and the Source of all power and authority. How much clearer can I be?

My response:

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.


Acts 2:21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

My response:

Acts 2:21 does not reiterate that fact. Further Acts 2:21 .

Further Acts 2:21 does not quote Joel 2:32.


4) WHERE do you get the idea that I said that the atonement of Christ is not necessary for salvation?? I'm very curious about that one!

My response:

Hosea 13:4Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

According to Jehovah as found in Hosea 13:4 there is only one savior. So if Jesus Christ is not Jehovah, then there would be no need for Christ as a savior.

5) I know that Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings because that is what he is called throughout the Scriptures (e.g., Psalm 2:6-12; Revelation 19:16).

6) Yes, there are two names under heaven whereby we must be saved. See #2 and #3 above.


Mr response to question 6:

So according to your understanding Acts 4:11-12 is denied by you?

Acts 4:11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #229

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Revelations won in post #229]

Nothing I say makes one bit of difference to you. It's like talking to a plant. There's life there but no communication.

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Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

Post #230

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

Thank you for your responses.

In your previous post you said:

“6) Yes, there are two names under heaven whereby we must be saved. See #2 and #3 above.”

My response was:

“So according to your understanding Acts 4:11-12 is denied by you?

Acts 4:11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. “


In observing your response it appears very clear that you are in fact denying what the apostle Peter taught in Acts 4:11-12.

If Jesus Christ had failed in his mission to accomplish the “Atonement” could there have been salvation and exaltation without Christ?

Kind regards,
RW

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