Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

[Revelations won]

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my “take� on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my “take� on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour�

Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.�


Matthew 27:52-53 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Exodus 3:14 God calls himself “I AM� “3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.�


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was “I AM�. 54 “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM.�


Exodus 6:3 “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.�


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.�


1Corinthians 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.�


Hebrews 5:8-9 “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;�


Psalms 118:22-24 “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23
This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.�





Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.�


John 10:1-11 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6
This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.�


Hebrews 2:8-11 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.�

John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.�


Colossians 2:8-14 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;�

[myth-one.com]

Paul is addressing the Christians in Corinth when he writes the following:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (I Corinthians 15:42-45)

This scripture is not complicated.

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the only body which a human has!

It is our physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies. This is exactly what the above verses state!

Deceased Christian bodies are buried or "sown" as:

1. corruptible
2. dishonored
3. weak
4. natural

Those human bodies are resurrected at the Second Coming as:

1. incorruptible
2. glorified
3. powerful
4. spiritual bodies

Human Christians which are alive at the Second Coming will be changed from living human bodies into everlasting spiritual bodies in an instant:

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (I Corinthians 15:51)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

===============================================


1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

At present, we Christians do not understand what we shall be or how we shall appear. Your incorrect claims confirm this verse to be true.

But those who understand the scriptures, know that when He appears again at the Second Coming, we shall be like Him.

That is, all believers and the Word will all be incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodied beings!

. . . there is a spiritual body.

PinSeeker wrote:

Most certainly, and it is very much physical.

Spiritual bodies which are very much physical do not exist. The physical body comes first and will be followed by the spiritual body for all believers:

1 Corinthians 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Only that which is born of the Spirit and thus not of sin and thus fully justified because of imputed righteousness -- the righteousness of Christ, imputed by God the Father -- can inherit the kingdom of God.

Also, they cannot contain any flesh or blood:

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;... (I Corinthians 15:49-50)

How you can cling to your views on this, much less possessing them, is quite astounding.

I take no credit for my "views."

They come from God's words -- not mine.

[Revelations won]

Dear Pin Seeker,

Thank you for your response.

I quote from your post # 51 and state that I am in agreement with you that the scriptures make it very clear that Jesus The Christ is indeed YAHWEH of the Old Testament.

I also have in previous posts on this topic clearly demonstrated from the scriptures that this is fully demonstrated and substantiated.

"Re: Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament
Report Reply Quote Thanks Post #51
Post by PinSeeker » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:13 pm

Paul writes, in Philippians 2:9-11:
.
Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the Name that is above every name so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
.
In confessing Christ is Lord, we swear allegiance to Him. And in this passage, Paul is quoting the LORD (YAHWEH) speaking through the Prophet Isaiah (45:22-25, emphasis mine):
.
Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against him. In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.
.
As a Pharisee, Paul knew this text very well. He knew exactly what he was saying: Jesus of Nazareth is YAHWEH.

These direct connections between YAHWEH in the Old Testament and Jesus in the New Testament are myriad. For example (and this one is straight from the mouth of Jesus):
.
Psalm 23:1 -- "The LORD (YAHWEH) is my shepherd...

John 10:14 -- "I am the good shepherd..."
.
It's just inescapable (though some will continue to try). Grace and peace to all."

The last several posts deal with the topic of the resurrection and it would probably be best to take those post to a topic on the ressurrection, since they have nothing to do with the OP topic.

Best regards,
RW

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #82]

Thank you for your response, RW. I'm glad to hear you agree, but not for my sake. To God be the glory, of course.

Regarding your advice, I'm not the one who hijacked this thread, my friend. You might want to redirect, but if you do, be prepared to not be listened to... and even (so he might think) shouted down. Some people don't listen to anybody (not even You-Know-Who) but themselves...

Grace and peace to you.

[Revelations won]

Dear Pin Seeker,

Thank you for your response to my post. It is nice to see one who has eyes to see, ears to heard a heart to capable of understanding.

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my take on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my take on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

If this does not prophesy of Jesus Christ, Can anyone show who this child that was to be born is that is described in Isaiah 9:6-7?


Isaiah 25:8-9 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Again I ask, if this is not also a prophesy describing Jesus Christ, then I challenge anyone to clearly identify who it applies to?

Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Christ is indeed the stone which the builders have rejected.

Christ has indeed become "the head of the corner".

Christ alone is the only redeemer and savior and there is, as the scriptures so testify "the ONLY name under heaven whereby man can be saved".

Christ alone is the only one who was "foreordained before the foundations of the world were laid" to become the savior and redeemer as a part and parcel of the Father's plan.

Christ alone was he whom the angel Gabriel prophesied unto Mary that her son "shall reign for ever over the house of Jacob, and of his kingdom there shall be no end"

Christ alone is the very Emmanuel or God with us as the scriptures so testify.


If anyone can show otherwise, then produce your evidence refuting the above.

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

In response to the JW responses,

1.Now, if I understand you correctly, it is your position that Jehovah is the only savior and that besides him there is NO OTHER SAVIOR.

2. Further, your responses are that CHRIST IS NOT OUR SAVIOR.

3. Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

4. Also it appears that you hereby deny the following scripture in

Acts 4: 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

5.Your answers would also appear to indicate that you also deny the atonement of Christ.

6. Are you saying that mens sins can be forgiven without the atonement of Christ?

7. Are you declaring that man can be saved and resurrected without CHRIST?

I trust you have clear and simple honest answers to the above issues. I would love to hear your responses.

Kind regards
RW

[Revelations won]

I submit to all who profess to be Christians and also to the JW’s, the following scriptures to review and be edified. I will also ask questions after certain scriptures quoted.

Psalms 24
8
Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
9
Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10
Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

I would ask, who is this king of glory mentioned in Psalms?

Does it not certainly apply to the Lord Jehovah?


Psalms 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

At the time that this Psalm was written, the Lord God Jehovah was a personage of spirit and did not yet have a body of flesh and bones.

Psalms 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

In the above verse we are clearly taught that the Lord God would dwell among men.

Kind regards,
RW

[tam]

Peace to you RW,

[Replying to Revelations won in post #87]

I wonder if I might have missed it, but I don't think you responded to the question I asked in post 50. Did I miss it?

viewtopic.php?p=1022654#p1022654


Thank you and peace again to you!



Edited to add:

As to Psalm 34, the context is the following:

The righteous person may have many troubles,
but the LORD delivers him from them all;
he protects all his bones,
not one of them will be broken.

JAH is protecting the bones of the Righteous One. None of the bones of the Righteous One will be broken. The verse is not stating that none of JAH's bones will be broken; rather that none of the Righteous One's bones will be broken. JAH delivers the Righteous One from all his troubles, and protects the bones of the Righteous One so that none of them will be broken.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Revelations won]

Dear Tammy,

Sorry I overlooked your question in your post #50.

You should so observe that the Pharisees in their ongoing attempts to find cause against Christ by their many cunning ways, were again attempting to snare him.

They were so obsessed with their private interpretations of the law and their claimed learning of the law and relied on their supposed interpretation of the letter of the law and their false claims of superiority learning by virtue of their rabbinical schooling.

The Master was, however, one step ahead of them and caught them in their own snare, by first asking them whose son he (Christ) was.

Their quick and faulty response was ”The Son of David”.

Christ having then caught them in their own trap, proceeded to ask them the following question “How then doth David in spirit call him Lord”?

It was David speaking in the spirit who said “The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

The Pharisees were then put to silence for “no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”.

Our Lord Jesus Christ then in his masterful manner posed the great question to the accusing Pharisees: “If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?”

They were then caught in their own trap for “no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”

Did not Christ indeed make the enemies under the house of David his footstool?

Did not Christ also by the atonement and resurrection overcome death for all mankind?

Herein is his divinity clearly established for no sinful mortal could never atone for the sins of another.

As the scriptures so testify of our Lord and Savior, he is indeed Lord of lords and King of kings.

As the scriptures so testify that our Lord Jesus Christ was to inherit all that the Father hath.

As the scriptures so testify, Christ’s kingdom is an everlasting kingdom.

As the scriptures so testify, ALL power is given him in heaven and earth.

As the Great Jehovah so testified: in Isaia 7:14

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah7:14 This prophecy is a powerful witness from the Lord Jehovah will not send someone else for a sign, but as is clearly declared that he himself will give us a sign.

The prophecy also clearly states that this sign given shall be called "Immanuel (or God with us.")

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

One should also clearly observe that this son who was born of Mary is indeed a second witness declaring that this is the Lord himself or Emmanuel which being interpreted is God with us.

I Would submit that no one can find in the Holy scriptures quoted from Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:3 any other individual this applies to other than the very Jehovah who is also known as Jesus Christ.

Matthew 22:
41
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46
And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Now Tammy you have my very condensed answer to your post # 50.

Kind regards,
RW

[tam]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #89]

Peace again to you RW,

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out in response.

I have read it a couple of times now to be sure, but I do not see an answer to the question that I asked.


How can they be the same person, if YHWH is speaking to Christ Jaheshua?


I am not suggesting that Christ is not divine (He is the Son of God, how can He not also be divine?) or that He was a mere sinful mortal. I am simply taking Him at His word when He says that He is the Son of God.

But you are claiming that "YHWH" is the same person as Christ. So my question remains: if "YHWH" is speaking TO Christ, how then can they be the same person?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Revelations won]

Dear Tam,

I can better respond to your question if you will please give me the scripture wherein you claim that Jehovah is speaking to Christ?

Thanks for your response.

Kind regards,
RW