Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

[Revelations won]

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my “take� on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my “take� on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour�

Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.�


Matthew 27:52-53 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Exodus 3:14 God calls himself “I AM� “3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.�


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was “I AM�. 54 “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM.�


Exodus 6:3 “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.�


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.�


1Corinthians 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.�


Hebrews 5:8-9 “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;�


Psalms 118:22-24 “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23
This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.�





Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.�


John 10:1-11 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6
This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.�


Hebrews 2:8-11 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.�

John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
The same was in the beginning with God.
3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.�


Colossians 2:8-14 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;�

[Revelations won]

I submit to all who profess to be Christians and also to the JW’s, the following scriptures to review and be edified. I will also ask questions after certain scriptures quoted.


Psalms 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

Verse 21 applies to a time when the Lord Jehovah would at some time be given gall and vinegar.

Can anyone show from the scriptures, any other than Jesus Christ who is Jehovah to whom this scripture applies?


Matthew 27:33
And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.
The above verse in Matthew also applies to Jesus Christ.


Matthew 27: 48
And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

Does this not also verily describe Christ in the above scriptures found in Matthew 27?


The following is one of the most powerful witnesses given by the Lord Jehovah himself.


Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah7:14 This prophecy is a powerful witness from the Lord Jehovah will not send someone else for a sign, but as is clearly declared that he himself will give us a sign.

The prophecy also clearly states that this sign given shall be called Immanuel (or God with us.)

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

One should also clearly observe that this son who was born of Mary is indeed a second witness declaring that this is the Lord himself or Emmanuel which being interpreted is God with us.

I Would submit that no one can find in the Holy scriptures quoted from Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:3 any other individual this applies to other than the very Jehovah who is also known as Jesus Christ.

Kind regards,
RW

[tam]

Peace to you RW,

[Replying to Revelations won in post #91]


Post 50 does cite and explain the verse under discussion, I apologize if that post is unclear. But the verse is:

Psalm 110:1

[The LORD] says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."


We know that David is the one speaking (Matt 12:36), and we know that [LORD] all caps is simply a scribal substitution for YHWH ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/psa ... onc_588001 ). And we know that the 'my lord' in the verse is referring to Christ (David's Lord). Christ explains this at Matt 12:36.

So the verse reads:

YHWH says to my Lord (to Christ) "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."


So YHWH is speaking to Christ.



Hope that clarifies.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tigger 2]

Immanuel (Emmanuel) does not mean Jesus is God.

How do we know that Immanu El in Hebrew means ‘God is with us’? For one thing we know because shortly after it is introduced in Isaiah 7:14 and repeated in 8:8, the very same Hebrew term is explained in 8:10 - “God is with us” - KJV; RSV; NRSV; NASB; NIV; NEB; REB; NJB; NAB; MLB; LB; etc.

This was and is a very common expression in the Scriptures. It meant that God is helping us; God is on our side (not literally at our side).

For example, a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou [YHWH] art with me - ASV.

For other examples, see 1 Chron. 17:2; 2 Chron. 1:1; 15:2-4, 9; 35:21; Ezra 1:3; Is. 8:10; Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13 and many more.

The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible
Luke 1:28

the Lord is with thee;
so the angel to Gideon, (Judges 6:12) or "be with thee", an usual form of salutation among the Jews; (Ruth 2:4)

***************************

Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament
Ruth 2:4

Jehovah be with thee. Jehovah bless thee
(Ruth 2:4). It seems that these were customary salutations, acknowledging the blessing of the Lord in the abundance of the harvest.

***************************
Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament
Ps. 46:7

Jehovah of hosts is with us
(Psalms 46:7). If God be for us, who can be against us, is the New Testament echo of this confidence. The great security is in God.

Yes, it means exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”!

Or as noted trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris tells us:
“Matthew [in Matt. 1:23] is not saying, ‘Someone who is “God” is now physically with us,’ but ‘God is acting on our behalf in the person of Jesus.’” - p. 258, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

[Revelations won]

Greetings to all,

Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Christ is indeed the stone which the builders have rejected.

Christ has indeed become "the head of the corner".

Christ alone is the only redeemer and savior and there is, as the scriptures so testify "the ONLY name under heaven whereby man can be saved".

Christ alone is the only one who was "foreordained before the foundations of the world were laid" to become the savior and redeemer as a part and parcel of the Father's plan.

Christ alone was he whom the angel Gabriel prophesied unto Mary that her son "shall reign for ever over the house of Jacob, and of his kingdom there shall be no end"

Christ alone is the very Emmanuel or God with us as the scriptures so testify.

There are three in heaven who bear witness, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Ghost.

If anyone can show otherwise, then produce your evidence refuting the above.

Kind regards,
RW

[tam]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #95]

Peace to you RW,

I'm not sure there is anyone who could disagree with the content of your previous post (with possible exception to translations of the last verse being in dispute). However, none of what you wrote in your post makes Christ the same person as "Jehovah of the OT".

I think my same question from earlier applies: if "YHWH" is speaking TO Christ, how then can they be the same person?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

As far as the storyline goes, this seems a plausible observation. Jesus is Jehovah's way of trying to fix a problem Jehovah is ultimately responsible for creating.

The Story of Jehovah, gave humans a wrong impression of 'What a Creator is' - as they [Elohim] created this universe specifically to contain a problem which required a solution.

The problem then became, that individuate consciousnesses were getting lost on account of their beliefs and creating all sorts of terrible reality experiences in the process.

Jehovah therefore made a means in which the problem could be rectified, at least in relation to changing human beliefs so that these would create better reality experiences for individuate human consciousnesses.

[PinSeeker]

Jesus is Jehovah's way of trying to fix a problem Jehovah is ultimately responsible for creating.

Rather, Jesus, the second Person of the triune Jehovah -- Who proceeds from the Father Himself and was in possession of the same glory with the Father from eternity past and is one with the Father though distinct in person -- is the Father's (the first Person's) provision for humankind's reconciliation unto Himself. Yes, He banished Adam -- and thus humankind, as Adam is the federal head of the human race -- from paradise because of Adam's sin (disobedience). But even in this pronouncement, the Father then immediately promises that Christ would rectify the situation (Genesis 3:15). Jesus did that with His work on the cross and will fulfill it in full at His return. So, as Jesus said on the cross with His dying breath, it is finished. It will come to pass.

Grace and peace to all.

[William]

Jesus is Jehovah's way of trying to fix a problem Jehovah is ultimately responsible for creating.

Rather, Jesus, the second Person of the triune Jehovah -- Who proceeds from the Father Himself and was in possession of the same glory with the Father from eternity past and is one with the Father though distinct in person -- is the Father's (the first Person's) provision for humankind's reconciliation unto Himself. Yes, He banished Adam -- and thus humankind, as Adam is the federal head of the human race -- from paradise because of Adam's sin (disobedience). But even in this pronouncement, the Father then immediately promises that Christ would rectify the situation (Genesis 3:15). Jesus did that with His work on the cross and will fulfill it in full at His return. So, as Jesus said on the cross with His dying breath, it is finished. It will come to pass.

Grace and peace to all.

You assume that The Father is Jehovah. Rather, Jehovah is after The Father, and embodied in Jesus for that specific purpose.

Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify.

He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement.

[PinSeeker]

You assume that The Father is Jehovah.

No, I know that the Father is the first Person of the triune Jehovah because... the Bible (God, via His Holy Spirit) tells me (us) so. And because He has given me faith to believe.

Rather, Jehovah is after The Father, and embodied in Jesus for that specific purpose.

And is this something you just think? Or is there something actually in the Bible that you think conveys this? I don't completely disagree with this statement, by the way.

Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify. He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement.

I'll ignore this; you can certainly have any kind of opinion you like; far be it from me to deprive you of that (even if I could).

Grace and peace to you.

[William]

You assume that The Father is Jehovah.

No, I know that the Father is the first Person of the triune Jehovah because... the Bible (God, via His Holy Spirit) tells me (us) so. And because He has given me faith to believe.

The bible tells you lots of things - but can you show precisely where Jesus calls The Father, Jehovah?

Rather, Jehovah is after The Father, and embodied in Jesus for that specific purpose.

And is this something you just think? Or is there something actually in the Bible that you think conveys this? I don't completely disagree with this statement, by the way.

Not all that Jesus spoke of was recorded in the bible. In fact, very little. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Jesus/Jehovah fluffed up and thus had to rectify. He hastily cursed the creation without getting all the information required to make a better judgement.

I'll ignore this;

Most Christians do. But it remains a biblical fact, anyway.