Jehovah of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

[Revelations won]

Jehovah of the Old Testament, is Jesus Christ of the New Testament

There are some today who do not understand or accept that Jehovah of the Old Testament is in fact Jesus Christ of the New Testament. My observation is that He is in very deed the great Jehovah, who was and is King of kings and Lord of lords, even the very Messiah, our lord and redeemer, the Holy One of Israel and the the author of our resurrection and the only name whereby man can be saved. This is my “take� on this topic. I welcome all would care to debate and provide your evidence to support contrary or opposing views. The following scriptures are presented as evidence supporting my “take� on the above subject:

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:"

Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour�

Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Isaiah 25:8-9 “He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.


Isaiah 26:19 “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.�


Matthew 27:52-53 “And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Exodus 3:14 God calls himself “I AM� “3 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.�


John 8:54-58 (Before Abraham was “I AM�. 54 “Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
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Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
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Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
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Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
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Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,
I AM.�


Exodus 6:3 “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.�


Deuteronomy 32:2-4 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.�


1Corinthians 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.�


Hebrews 5:8-9 “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;�


Psalms 118:22-24 “The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
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This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
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This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.�





Acts 4:10-12 “Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.�


John 10:1-11 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
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But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
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To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
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And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
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And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
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This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
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Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
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All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
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I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
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The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
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I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Ephesians 2:18-20 “For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Hebrews 1:1-4 “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
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Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
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Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
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Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.�


Hebrews 2:8-11 “And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.�

John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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The same was in the beginning with God.
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All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
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And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.�


Colossians 2:8-14 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;�

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 18 by Revelations won]

2. The Fathers name is Elohim.

Are you sure about that?

I am sure His name is YHVH, I am who I am.

[onewithhim]

Response to my post to JW's dated 4-6-2020. I certainly am most willing for you to respond to my 7 questions. Your response is most welcome.

Kind regards,

RW

They have already been answered, Revelations, if you will take the time to read JehovahsWitness's posts.




.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 15 by Revelations won]

The Father's name is not "Elohim." Elohim refers to God OR gods, including angels, humans, and pagan dieties. Dagon of the Philistines was "Elohim."

God very plainly states in the Scriptures that His name is YHWH, commonly translated as "Jehovah." Even in the KJV. Look at it at PSALM 83:18, KJV.

In fact, wherever you see "LORD" in all upper-case letters in the Old Testament, that is where "YHWH" should be. It was REMOVED by scribes and REPLACED with "LORD," some 7,000 times.

You might think about revising your posts. I'm sure you don't want to be shooting yourself in the foot.



.

[Revelations won]

Response to JW’s post of August 26, 2019


Dear JW
The following is some of my response to your post referenced above:

You said:

“Whatever Adam's reasoning was, it was faulty! One does not help fulfill Gods purpose by disobeying his commands, one cannot correct a wrong by committing another. So even if he had been reasoning,: "If Eve dies because of what she has done, how will the divine mandate to be fruitful and fill the earth be obeyed?" or "If Eve dies I'll be all alone. Again!" Adam should have had confidence in His father who had previously declared "It is not good for man to be alone" ultimately not to leave him in that position. God Gave him Eve he could have given him Sheila, if Adam had been trusting and willing to give up another rib he would have saved mankind a lot of heartache and suffering.

Whatever he does, Almighty God can always find a way to fulfill his purpose without violating his own principles or compromising his loving acts towards the faithful. Whether Eve would have been allowed to have children before she died or some other solution, we don't know. And sadly we never will because Adam rebelled and took the whole human race down with him in the ultimate act of betrayal - choosing a woman over his Creator.�


Some of my responses:

I think you should examine the account of the creation more carefully i.e.

Genesis 1: 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

We should observe that God COMMANDED Adam, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

We should clearly observe that every thing which the Lord created
very good. So, not only was the tree of life very good, but also the tree of knowledge was also very good. This being the case was partaking of the tree of knowledge in fact a good thing and perhaps a very wise choice?

It should also be VERY CAREFULLY noted that God, in verse 17 above gave these instructions to Adam.

In verse 18 above it is very clear that Eve was not present with Adam since God had not yet made an helpmate for Adam.

Have you also considered what would happen if Adam and eve had then partaken of the tree of life and could then live forever?

If they had partaken of the tree of life then this act would have made God a liar, for then they would not have tasted of death.

Why did God place both the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life in the center of the garden which He created?

It also seems very clear that God gave Adam and Eve the gift of agency in the garden.

In the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were not subject to death.

This being the case they would have been married eternally.

Are you prepared to explain the theology of eternal marriage on this earth?

Also we should remember that the garden of Eden was not heaven. This my observation unless you can show otherwise?


Best regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

In reviewing some of your articles in the second post, it is very clear that your responses are based relating to the “doctrine of the trinity�.

I think I may find some common ground in your arguments relating thereto. If you were to examine all of my posts you would so note that never at any time have I subscribed to the “Trinity� doctrine. That doctrine is not found in the scriptures and is not scriptural. It would from historical examination appear to be a “man made doctrine� and could not be added to scripture according to the then existing creeds.

Kind regards,

BTW, My last post submitted on this topic was posted in error, since it was intended for another topic.

[Eloi]

RevWon, you insist too much in the fact that Jesus is our Savior. You are so right about it. The point is: does that prove that Jesus is God? Bible shows it is not:

Acts 5:31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

[tigger2]

[Replying to post 21 by Checkpoint]

His personal name is shown to be YHWH (YHVH in modern usage) which is not "I am who I am," but the third person of Ehyeh, "Will Be" ("He Will Be").

This personal name of God (YHWH) is used thousands of times in the OT. Ehyeh is used in reference to God's name only once in Ex. 3:14. Every other time it is used in all of Moses' writings it is translated as "I will be" (e.g., Ex. 3:12).

[onewithhim]

Dear JW's



In response to the JW responses,

All I was asking for was a simple and clear response to my question:

1.Now, if I understand you correctly, it is your position that Jehovah is the “only savior� and that besides him there is “NO OTHER SAVIOR.�

From your point of view is this correct?

Kind regards,
RW

Jehovah is the only Savior because it is his power and his authority that originates salvation. He is the SOURCE of any salvation. Jesus Christ is the means by which Jehovah saves. Jehovah provides the instructions which Jesus follows, and Jehovah provides the power to raise Jesus from the dead, and Jehovah is the One who decides whether or not Jesus has fulfilled his assignment to save the world of mankind. Jehovah deemed Jesus as successful, and therefore GAVE Jesus the name above every other name among mankind or the angels and also a position higher than he ever had before.

Jesus humbled himself "and became obedient to the point of death....For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name." (Philippians 2:8,9)

Was Jesus obedient to himself? If he was Jehovah, it wouldn't be worded that way. There wouldn't be "God" or the "Father" AND Jesus in the same scenario.

Did Jesus give himself a more superior position? How can "God, the Father" (which you say Jesus is) be made higher than God, the Father, already was?


.

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

You said: "Did Jesus give himself a more superior position? How can "God, the Father" (which you say Jesus is) be made higher than God, the Father, already was?"

I did not say Jesus was God the Father. That is your statement.

I do have a question for you. I am unclear how you view Jesus Christ. Do you also believe Jesus Christ is God?

Kind regards,
RW

[FWI]

Jesus is Jehovah's heir.

This just can't be true, even with the bible verses supplied!

The Hebrew word translated into the English word "heir" is: "yarash" (H3423). Which means: to take possession, either by force or promise.

The Greek word translated into the English word "heir" is: "kleronomos" (H2818). Which means: one who receives allotted possessions by the right of sonship…

And, the English word "heir" means: A person who inherits or has the right to inherit possessions after the death of its owner. Which, of course is a non-starter related to God…So, if it's believed that Jesus is God's heir and God can't die, then "they" (God and the Christ) would seem to become equals related to possessions! Yet, reviewing 1 Cor. 15:24-28, these verses disagree:

Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God “subjected all things under his feet.� But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone (NWT).

So, the usage of the term "heir" doesn't fit into this scenario very well, when relating to the English or Hebrew definitions, but seems to fit better into the Greek one. Hence, the idea of an heir or inheritance seems to be incorrect. Where, a better understanding would be that Jesus received "the rights of sonship or of being the first of the firstfruits." Which, implies that God allows His begotten children (the Christ now and others later) to share in the marvelous creation that He has brought into existence…Yet, God doesn't give up His authority (over all things) ever! Nor, does the Christ or the servants of God expect Him to…