Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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polonius
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Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world.

Did Jesus fulfill all of these, or in fact any of these? :-s

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Post by onewithhim »

Avoice wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:18 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #10]

Yeah? Name three
1. Descended from David

2. He is King over Israel, in the heavens

3. He has gathered spiritual Jews from the four corners of the earth

There were many prophecies fulfilled in other ways, but I just focused on the ones you mentioned. The New Testament talks about true Jews being those that accept Jesus, and therefore the natural Jews aren't the sum and substance of God's special people. This is quite clear if we take the time to read the scriptures.

Galatians 3:28,29
Galatians 4:25
Galatians 6:15,16
I Peter 2:9,10
Matthew 23:37,38
Matthew 21:43

Will you consider those verses?

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

Post #13

Post by Eloi »

A messianic prophecy fulfilled in Jesus was his birth in Bethlehem. When the astrologers came to Jerusalem looking for the child born to be king of the Jews, they asked Herod where in Israel that child should have been born. Herod, in turn, asked the Jewish priests where the King of the Jews should be born. They told him that he must be born in Bethlehem:

Matt. 2:4 On gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They said to him:
In Bethʹle·hem of Ju·deʹa, for this is how it has been written through the prophet: 6 ‘And you, O Bethʹle·hem of the land of Judah, are by no means the most insignificant city among the governors of Judah, for out of you will come a governing one, who will shepherd my people Israel.’”

These were the prophecies:

2 Samuel 5:2 In times past while Saul was our king, you [David] were the one who was leading Israel on its campaigns. And Jehovah said to you: ‘You will shepherd my people Israel, and you will become leader over Israel.’”

Micah 5:2 And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.

Mary and Joseph lived in Nazareth, not Bethlehem. But a government decree was given that forced them to go to Bethlehem to register when Mary was close to giving birth, and there Jesus was born, as the prophecy indicated. None of them could have planned this event.

Luke 2:1 Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Au·gusʹtus for all the inhabited earth to be registered. 2 (This first registration took place when Qui·rinʹi·us was governor of Syria.) 3 And all the people went to be registered, each one to his own city. 4 Of course, Joseph also went up from Galʹi·lee, from the city of Nazʹa·reth, into Ju·deʹa, to David’s city, which is called Bethʹle·hem, because of his being a member of the house and family of David. 5 He went to get registered with Mary, who had been given him in marriage as promised and who was soon to give birth. 6 While they were there, the time came for her to give birth. 7 And she gave birth to her son, the firstborn, and she wrapped him in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the lodging place.

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

Post #14

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

polonius wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 1:19 pm Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world.

Did Jesus fulfill all of these, or in fact any of these? :-s
Your initial premise is wrong. Peace does not come to the whole world via the "messiah". The "messiah" would be the king who would rule the world with a "rod of iron" and a "sharp sword" (Revelation 19:15), and the "king" would rule from Jerusalem, passing judgment on the survivors from among the nations" (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas the survivors of the nations who sold Israel into slavery, will themselves be sold into slavery (Joel 3:4-8). Yeshua's role was as a messenger of things to come, and to send out fishermen of men to seek the lost sheep of Israel (Jeremiah 16:16), to preach the "kingdom", and that they must repent, before the day of Jacob's distress, and they will pay doubly for their iniquity. (Jeremiah 16:18-19), whereupon the survivors of the nations (Jeremiah 30:11) will confess that their fathers taught them nothing but "falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), and then "hunters" will hunt down the lost sheep from the "all the countries where He had banished them" (Jeremiah 16:15).

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:27 pm
polonius wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 1:19 pm Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world.

Did Jesus fulfill all of these, or in fact any of these? :-s
Your initial premise is wrong. Peace does not come to the whole world via the "messiah". The "messiah" would be the king who would rule the world with a "rod of iron" and a "sharp sword" (Revelation 19:15), and the "king" would rule from Jerusalem, passing judgment on the survivors from among the nations" (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas the survivors of the nations who sold Israel into slavery, will themselves be sold into slavery (Joel 3:4-8). Yeshua's role was as a messenger of things to come, and to send out fishermen of men to seek the lost sheep of Israel (Jeremiah 16:16), to preach the "kingdom", and that they must repent, before the day of Jacob's distress, and they will pay doubly for their iniquity. (Jeremiah 16:18-19), whereupon the survivors of the nations (Jeremiah 30:11) will confess that their fathers taught them nothing but "falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), and then "hunters" will hunt down the lost sheep from the "all the countries where He had banished them" (Jeremiah 16:15).
You have things skewed. The Messiah would use his rod of iron against evil people, people that had been against Messiah's own people. Not the whole world. Isaiah clearly says that the Messiah would bring peace.

"...A son has been given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulder. His name will be...Prince of Peace. To the increase of his government and to peace there will be no end." (Isaiah 9:6,7)

The King rules from heavenly Jerusalem, as the Apostle Paul explained in the Greek Scriptures.

"Now Hagar means Sinai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:25,26)

The Christians became the spiritual "Israel of God," as Paul and Peter made clear. "For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is. As by all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy upon them, yes upon the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:15,16)

Peter to Christians: "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a special possession....For you were once not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not been shown mercy, but now you have received mercy." (IPeter 2:9,10)

It is clear that all those who followed Christ made up the holy nation that USED to be natural Israel, and they were blessed with peace. Everything in the Hebrew Scriptures that had pertained to natural Israel would now pertain to spiritual Israel, the Christian congregation. Jesus said to natural Israel: "The Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruits," which is the Christian congregation. (Matthew 21:43)

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

Post #16

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:19 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:27 pm
polonius wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 1:19 pm Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world.

Did Jesus fulfill all of these, or in fact any of these? :-s
Your initial premise is wrong. Peace does not come to the whole world via the "messiah". The "messiah" would be the king who would rule the world with a "rod of iron" and a "sharp sword" (Revelation 19:15), and the "king" would rule from Jerusalem, passing judgment on the survivors from among the nations" (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas the survivors of the nations who sold Israel into slavery, will themselves be sold into slavery (Joel 3:4-8). Yeshua's role was as a messenger of things to come, and to send out fishermen of men to seek the lost sheep of Israel (Jeremiah 16:16), to preach the "kingdom", and that they must repent, before the day of Jacob's distress, and they will pay doubly for their iniquity. (Jeremiah 16:18-19), whereupon the survivors of the nations (Jeremiah 30:11) will confess that their fathers taught them nothing but "falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19), and then "hunters" will hunt down the lost sheep from the "all the countries where He had banished them" (Jeremiah 16:15).
You have things skewed. The Messiah would use his rod of iron against evil people, people that had been against Messiah's own people. Not the whole world. Isaiah clearly says that the Messiah would bring peace.

"...A son has been given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulder. His name will be...Prince of Peace. To the increase of his government and to peace there will be no end." (Isaiah 9:6,7)

The King rules from heavenly Jerusalem, as the Apostle Paul explained in the Greek Scriptures.

"Now Hagar means Sinai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:25,26)

The Christians became the spiritual "Israel of God," as Paul and Peter made clear. "For neither is circumcision anything nor is uncircumcision, but a new creation is. As by all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy upon them, yes upon the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:15,16)

Peter to Christians: "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a special possession....For you were once not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not been shown mercy, but now you have received mercy." (IPeter 2:9,10)

It is clear that all those who followed Christ made up the holy nation that USED to be natural Israel, and they were blessed with peace. Everything in the Hebrew Scriptures that had pertained to natural Israel would now pertain to spiritual Israel, the Christian congregation. Jesus said to natural Israel: "The Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruits," which is the Christian congregation. (Matthew 21:43)
The "peace of Isaiah 9:6 is with regards to "us", which would be the combined "stick" of Ephraim and Judah (Ezekiel 37). The nations/Gentiles that survived the furnace of fire, Jacob's distress (Jeremiah 30:11 & 16:19), would have to praise the king in Jerusalem once a year on the feast of booths. If they do not do so, they will be struck by a rod of iron, which will turn their land into iron, as there will be no rain. As for the nations/Gentiles being attached to the root, if they do not produce fruit, they will be cut off and thrown into the fire. They were purchased as shown by Hosea 3, as an adulteress, for the equivalent price of 30 pieces of silver, for "many days", until "Israel returns" (Zechariah 11:12-13). Their leader, Peter, was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who would not feed, care or tend the sheep, and his heir, the pope, would "fall" in "that day", and his followers would be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:15-25). Paul is simply one of the shepherds taken to "pasture the flock (Gentile flock), doom to slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). The two horns like a lamb, the Christ like leaders, of the 7ith head of the beast Constantine, the founder of the Roman church, were Peter and Paul, who were to deceive those "who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14).

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:29 pm
Avoice wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:18 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #10]

Yeah? Name three
1. Descended from David

2. He is King over Israel, in the heavens

3. He has gathered spiritual Jews from the four corners of the earth

There were many prophecies fulfilled in other ways, but I just focused on the ones you mentioned. The New Testament talks about true Jews being those that accept Jesus, and therefore the natural Jews aren't the sum and substance of God's special people. This is quite clear if we take the time to read the scriptures.

Galatians 3:28,29
Galatians 4:25
Galatians 6:15,16
I Peter 2:9,10
Matthew 23:37,38
Matthew 21:43

Will you consider those verses?
Matthew 23:37-39 addresses the period when "Judah" and "Ephraim" are under judgment, in which they will be healed after 2 days (2000 years) (Hosea 2 & 3). Matthew 23:37,38 is a quote of Psalms 118, in which David decries the "nations"/Gentile, in which David says, "I will surely cut them off" (Isaiah 118:10). As for the Galatians, written by the false prophet Paul, enough said. As for Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, enough said. I urge you to read the original text, and to vet your sources. As for the "fruit" of your "Christians", well, if that fruit is rotten, then their prophets are rotten as well. (Matthew 7:13-23).

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

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Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #17]

Your spin on things leaves me confused, and I am not confused concerning what I believe. I'm confused with your beliefs, which are basically very off-the-wall, sad to say. And you continue to denigrate the Apostle Paul, which is uncalled for, seeing as he was chosen by Jesus to spread the Good News. You and I are on different sides of the coin, and we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

Post #19

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:11 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #17]

Your spin on things leaves me confused, and I am not confused concerning what I believe. I'm confused with your beliefs, which are basically very off-the-wall, sad to say. And you continue to denigrate the Apostle Paul, which is uncalled for, seeing as he was chosen by Jesus to spread the Good News. You and I are on different sides of the coin, and we'll have to agree to disagree.
Paul's encounter with the angel of light was witnessed only by Paul. If one is their own witness, their witness is untrue.
King James Bible John 5:31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Paul, the shepherd of Zechariah 11:10, called "Favor", was chosen by the Lord God, to pasture the "flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7). From your writings, it appears you were confused beforehand about what is actually the message of Yeshua, which was the message of the "kingdom". If you haven't figured that out, then you might consider starting over. The message of Paul was the gospel of grace/cross, which is antithetical to the message of the kingdom. You have accepted the message of the "enemy"/"devil" which was mixed with the message of the son of man (Mt 13:25,39, & 37). Those who commit/practice lawlessness (Mt 7:23 & 13:41-42) will wind up being thrown into the "furnace of fire". Good luck getting off that wide path (Matthew 7:13-23).

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Re: Did Jesus fulfill any prophecies of the Messiah?

Post #20

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:46 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:11 pm [Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #17]

Your spin on things leaves me confused, and I am not confused concerning what I believe. I'm confused with your beliefs, which are basically very off-the-wall, sad to say. And you continue to denigrate the Apostle Paul, which is uncalled for, seeing as he was chosen by Jesus to spread the Good News. You and I are on different sides of the coin, and we'll have to agree to disagree.
Paul's encounter with the angel of light was witnessed only by Paul. If one is their own witness, their witness is untrue.
King James Bible John 5:31
If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
There were men with Paul that heard Jesus' voice, even though they didn't look at him. That should count for a witness or two.

Paul's message was also the good news of the Kingdom, just as Jesus' was. "So he remained for an entire two years in his own hired house, and he would kindly receive all those who came in to him, preaching the kingdom of God to them and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with the greatest freeness of speech, without hindrance." (Acts 28:31) See also Acts 19:8; Acts 20:25; Acts 28:23. He also mentions the Kingdom of God 16 more times in all his letters. I think perhaps you should readjust your thinking that Paul didn't speak about what Jesus taught. He certainly did.

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