It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

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It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

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Post by Wootah »

From this link: https://scottmsullivan.com/2-mind-blowi ... of-christ/

He mentions

Psalm 107:23-32 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Mark 4:35-41 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Basically Psalm 107 mentions YHVH as calming the sea and then in Mark some guy called Jesus calms the sea.

How can we not see the resemblance?

How can we claim to be Christian and not have faith in who Jesus is?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #51

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:Please define 'spiritual body.'
The scriptures define only two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual.

Every living being which does not have a natural body has a spiritual body.

God is one example:
John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:
Again, just a reiteration of what you've said before, both here and elsewhere (in other threads). Is this just total avoidance of the question? That's certainly how it seems. And then the question becomes, why are you avoiding the question? No reason to answer that second question; it just is what it is, so... Okay, let me ask it this way.

What are the characteristics and/or traits of the spiritual body? Can we see it and/or touch it? Or not? I'll even be more specific than I have been. Is the spiritual body physical? Because it seems Job certainly thought so:
  • "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last (at the end of time, when He returns) He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed (after he has died the first death), yet in my flesh (body, skin and all) I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another." [Job 19:25-27 (emphasis, parenthetical comments mine]
The answer, myth-one, is clearly, yes, we will have our physical bodies in eternity. To think we will not is quite clearly a wrong understanding of Scripture. To go back to 1 Corinthians 15, what Paul says is clearly a corroberation of what Job says. In speaking of the resurrection and the post-resurrection body, Paul says:
  • "So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual (not spirit, but very physical) body. ... But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." [1 Corinthians 15:42-46, emphasis, parenthetical comment added]
Again, we will have a very physical body, but that body will be spiritual and not natural, meaning not of nature, but of God... not unspiritual and sinful, but spiritual and sinless. We are not now and will never be -- even in eternity -- spirit in the same way God the Father is.

And this is exactly what Paul and Peter both say throughout their epistles, for those of us who are Christians, the spiritual has been born in us, most clearly by Paul here...
  • "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (not just in the future after one dies, but now, in the present) [2 Corinthians 5:17, emphasis and parenthetical comment added]
... and by Peter here...
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again (past tense) to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." [1 Peter 1:3, emphasis added]
So, because of this new birth that has occurred in us (by the Spirit), we are spiritual beings NOW; in that sense have been born again and are saved. But because the natural is still in us (we are still sinners), in that sense, I agree with you that we are not yet fully saved; we are being saved, as Paul says. This is the now-and-not-yet aspect of the Gospel. Both are true, and neither can be dismissed or rejected.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #52

Post by myth-one.com »


PinSeeker wrote:Is the spiritual body physical?
According to God, they are unique and require separate and distinct types of birth:
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)
So the spiritual body is not physical!




In speaking of the resurrection and the post-resurrection body, Paul says:
  • "So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual (not spirit, but very physical) body. ... But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." [1 Corinthians 15:42-46, emphasis, parenthetical comment added]
PinSeeker wrote:Again, we will have a very physical body, but that body will be spiritual and not natural, meaning not of nature, but of God... not unspiritual and sinful, but spiritual and sinless. We are not now and will never be -- even in eternity -- spirit in the same way God the Father is.
And this is exactly what Paul and Peter both say throughout their epistles, for those of us who are Christians, the spiritual has been born in us, most clearly by Paul here...
  • "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (not just in the future after one dies, but now, in the present) [2 Corinthians 5:17, emphasis and parenthetical comment added]
... and by Peter here...

PinSeeker wrote:
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again (past tense) to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." [1 Peter 1:3, emphasis added]

So, because of this new birth that has occurred in us (by the Spirit), we are spiritual beings NOW; in that sense have been born again and are saved. But because the natural is still in us (we are still sinners), in that sense, I agree with you that we are not yet fully saved; we are being saved, as Paul says. This is the now-and-not-yet aspect of the Gospel. Both are true, and neither can be dismissed or rejected.

Grace and peace to you.[/quote]

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #53

Post by myth-one.com »


PinSeeker wrote:Please define 'spiritual body.'
. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)
PinSeeker wrote:What are the characteristics and/or traits of the spiritual body? Can we see it and/or touch it? Or not? I'll even be more specific than I have been. Is the spiritual body physical?
None of us have ever been a spiritual body -- so we cannot know its characteristics except for the few things stated about it in the scriptures. Here's one:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)
If you cannot move as the wind, you are not a spiritual bodied being.
PinSeeker wrote:
  • "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last (at the end of time, when He returns) He will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed (after he has died the first death), yet in my flesh (body, skin and all) I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another." [Job 19:25-27 (emphasis, parenthetical comments mine]
Job died under the Old Testament Covenant, not the New Testament. That is, Job will be resurrected at the second resurrection as a human being and face judgment -- since he did not die as one of "those that are Christ's:"
1 Corinthians 15:23 wrote:But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
PinSeeker wrote:The answer, myth-one, is clearly, yes, we will have our physical bodies in eternity. To think we will not is quite clearly a wrong understanding of Scripture.
Job will be resurrected as a human, very likely accept Jesus as His Savior, and be born again as a spiritual bodied being at that time. He will be a spiritual being for ever after -- never again to be human or any other natural bodied being.
PinSeeker wrote:To go back to 1 Corinthians 15, what Paul says is clearly a corroberation of what Job says. In speaking of the resurrection and the post-resurrection body, Paul says:
  • "So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual (not spirit, but very physical) body. ... But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual." [1 Corinthians 15:42-46, emphasis, parenthetical comment added]
Who are you to add to the scriptures as inspired by God?
Here is what 1 Corinthians 15:44 actually wrote:It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
Paul states that the natural Christian body is sown as a natural body, and resurrected as a spiritual body.

I'll agree with Paul and God on this important point..
PinSeeker wrote:Again, we will have a very physical body, but that body will be spiritual and not natural, meaning not of nature, but of God... not unspiritual and sinful, but spiritual and sinless.
Natural bodies and spiritual bodies have opposing characteristics.

One is designed to survive in the physical earthly kingdom, and the other is designed to live eternally in the spiritual Kingdom of God.

There is no logical reason for a spiritual bodied being to have natural bodied characteristics.
PinSeeker wrote:And this is exactly what Paul and Peter both say throughout their epistles, for those of us who are Christians, the spiritual has been born in us, most clearly by Paul here...
  • "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (not just in the future after one dies, but now, in the present) [2 Corinthians 5:17, emphasis and parenthetical comment added]
... and by Peter here...
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again (past tense) to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..." [1 Peter 1:3, emphasis added]
So, because of this new birth that has occurred in us (by the Spirit), we are spiritual beings NOW; in that sense have been born again and are saved. But because the natural is still in us (we are still sinners), in that sense, I agree with you that we are not yet fully saved; we are being saved, as Paul says. This is the now-and-not-yet aspect of the Gospel. Both are true, and neither can be dismissed or rejected.
Being "born again to a living hope" has nothing to do with body type.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

And that which is born again of the Spirit is spirit.

That which is born again to a living hope is a natural bodied human who has accepted Jesus as His Savior and has a new outlook and attitude!

But he or she is still a natural bodied human.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #54

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: None of us have ever been a spiritual body -- so we cannot know its characteristics except for the few things stated about it in the scriptures.
Incorrect. We can easily see, before the Fall from grace in Genesis 3, in the persons of Adam and Eve, at least what our outward characteristics will be after Jesus's return. I am a spiritual person right now -- spiritually alive and in Christ, and I am certainly not not a ghost... :) And you are, too, if you are a Christian. All Christians -- even the physically alive ones -- have been made spiritually alive according to the will of God the Father via the Holy Spirit, who has made us dead to sin and alive to God. Now, the natural (our sinful nature) has not completely died yet, for sure; that's why we still sin. One day that will no longer be the case, but we will still be very physical beings.
myth-one.com wrote:
  • The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)
If you cannot move as the wind, you are not a spiritual bodied being.
This is a terrible misunderstanding of what Jesus is telling Nicodemus in the third chapter of John. He is saying that we cannot see where the Holy Spirit is or where He is going, much less tell Him what to do or control Him in any way, and Jesus's point in saying this is that we cannot tell or even ask the Holy Spirit if we can be saved. We have no idea where He has been, is, or is going; in this way, He "moves as the wind."
myth-one.com wrote: Job died under the Old Testament Covenant, not the New Testament. That is, Job will be resurrected at the second resurrection as a human being and face judgment -- since he did not die as one of "those that are Christ's..."
Absolutely incorrect. After Adam, each one of us is saved in exactly the same fashion -- by faith; this is the point of Hebrews 11 -- and our destinies are exactly the same. He died in Christ the same way we will (if He doesn't come back first).
myth-one.com wrote: Job will be resurrected as a human...
That he will be, just like us -- just like Jesus was... because Jesus was.
myth-one.com wrote:...very likely accept Jesus as His Savior, and be born again as a spiritual bodied being at that time.
Nope. He did that long, long, LONG ago.
myth-one.com wrote: He will be a spiritual being for ever after -- never again to be human or any other natural bodied being.
Well, he will be spiritually alive, that's for sure, but again, that came to pass long ago. At the resurrection, he will be reunited with his physical body, which will no longer be natural (sinful) in addition to spiritual, but only spiritually alive -- which means alive to God, righteous, and sinless -- like Christ Jesus.
myth-one.com wrote: Who are you to add to the scriptures as inspired by God?
LOL! Never would I do such a thing. But I can -- and did -- certainly add clarification where needed for your sake, because you so clearly misunderstand.
myth-one.com wrote:
  • 1 Corinthians 15:44 -- It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
Paul states that the natural Christian body is sown as a natural body, and resurrected as a spiritual body. I'll agree with Paul and God on this important point.
Ohhhhhh... If only you truly did... But I give you credit, certainly, for trying to understand, but that's the problem.
myth-one.com wrote: Being "born again to a living hope" has nothing to do with body type.
Actually, it absolutely does! Correctly stated, "born again to a living hope" has nothing to do with our physicality or any lack thereof. It has everything to do with our natural (slave to sin, unrighteous, in Adam) versus our spiritual (slave to righteousness, righteous, in Christ) state.
myth-one.com wrote: That which is born of the flesh is flesh.
Yes, that which is born in sin is sinful -- completely, to the core.
myth-one.com wrote: And that which is born again of the Spirit is spirit.
Yes, that which is born again a slave to righteousness is in Christ, no longer spiritually dead -- solely in sin -- but spiritually alive. This has no bearing on physicality.
myth-one.com wrote: That which is born again to a living hope is a natural bodied human who has accepted Jesus as His Savior and has a new outlook and attitude!
Sure. Absolutely.
myth-one.com wrote: But he or she is still a natural bodied human.
In this life, that's true. But to say we will only be a spiritual bodied person in the New Heaven and New Earth is absolutely not to say we will no longer have physical bodies.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #55

Post by myth-one.com »


PinSeeker wrote:
myth-one.com wrote: None of us have ever been a spiritual body -- so we cannot know its characteristics except for the few things stated about it in the scriptures.
Incorrect.
If you have a spiritual body you are equal to God and the angels.

Can you heal the sick, change water into wine, and forgive sins?
myth-one.com wrote:
  • The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)
If you cannot move as the wind, you are not a spiritual bodied being.
PinSeeker wrote:This is a terrible misunderstanding of what Jesus is telling Nicodemus in the third chapter of John. He is saying that we cannot see where the Holy Spirit is or where He is going, . . .
No, the verse speaks of every one that is born of the Spirit -- not simply the Holy Spirit.

It is plural -- not singular.
myth-one.com wrote:Job died under the Old Testament Covenant, not the New Testament. That is, Job will be resurrected at the second resurrection as a human being and face judgment -- since he did not die as one of "those that are Christ's..."
PinSeeker wrote:Absolutely incorrect.
So Job accepted Jesus as His Savior prior to Jesus' birth?

Did he have to say "cart before the horse?"
myth-one.com wrote:Who are you to add to the scriptures as inspired by God?
PinSeeker wrote:LOL! Never would I do such a thing. But I can -- and did -- certainly add clarification where needed for your sake, because you so clearly misunderstand.
OK, my apology. You "clarified" the word of God.

You clarified the word of God into something totally different -- from a spiritual body to a physical body.
myth-one.com wrote:That which is born of the flesh is flesh.
Yes, that which is born in sin is sinful -- completely, to the core.

So that which is born of the flesh is sinful?

Is that your clarification of this verse?

Jesus was born of the flesh. Was He born sinful?

And angels and Satan were born of the Spirit.

But angels and Satan can sin also.
PinSeeker wrote:But to say we will only be a spiritual bodied person in the New Heaven and New Earth is absolutely not to say we will no longer have physical bodies.
For what reason will we have or ever need physical bodies?

Name one.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

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Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: If you have a spiritual body you are equal to God and the angels.
Not true at all. There is nothing in Scripture that even hints at such.
myth-one.com wrote: Can you heal the sick, change water into wine, and forgive sins?
Nope. But that's irrelevant; see above.
myth-one.com wrote: No, the verse speaks of every one that is born of the Spirit -- not simply the Holy Spirit.
Right, everyone born of the Spirit cannot control the Spirit or influence Him in any way. He does the will of God the Father and not of man. That's the point Jesus is making to Nicodemus. With God, all things are possible, even being born again, but with man, not so much. This is the point. What Jesus is saying has nothing to do with "floating around" or actually or literally "moving like the wind."
myth-one.com wrote: So Job accepted Jesus as His Savior prior to Jesus' birth?
Absolutely. God changed his heart to believe in a Savior. Just like He does everybody (since Adam). Really, the only difference between Job and us was that he was looking forward to Jesus (although he couldn't actually see the future, of course) and we are looking back on Him. And forward to His return.
myth-one.com wrote: OK, my apology. You "clarified" the word of God.
Well no, I tried to help you make sense of it. Thanks for the apology (although I well know you were being sarcastic -- and ungraceful).
myth-one.com wrote: You clarified the word of God into something totally different -- from a spiritual body to a physical body.
Nope. I tried to make you realize that there is no difference; they can be -- can be, if God makes it so -- one and the same. Which is absolutely what Scripture teaches.
myth-one.com wrote: So that which is born of the flesh is sinful? So that which is born of the flesh is sinful? Is that your clarification of this verse? Jesus was born of the flesh. Was He born sinful? And angels and Satan were born of the Spirit. But angels and Satan can sin also.
Wow. Um, we're talking about human beings here, myth-one. Try to stay on topic; I know it's hard for you. No, every mere human -- except the First Adam (Adam... although he wasn't born in the sense that he had a mother, he was created, of course) and the Second Adam (Jesus) -- is born sinful.
myth-one.com wrote: For what reason will we have or ever need physical bodies? Name one.
Well, to actually live the eternal life that God has promised us. And to be co-heirs with Jesus of the kingdom. Ohhhhh.... wait. That's two. Oh well. Sorry. :)

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

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Post by myth-one.com »


PinSeeker wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:For what reason will we have or ever need physical bodies? Name one.
Well, to actually live the eternal life that God has promised us.
Why do believers need a physical body to live forever?

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #58

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 53 by PinSeeker]
No, every mere human -- except the First Adam (Adam... although he wasn't born in the sense that he had a mother, he was created, of course) and the Second Adam (Jesus) -- is born sinful.
Hi again, Pinseeker,

Please clarify what or who you meant when you wrote "is born sinful".

Thanks.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #59

Post by PinSeeker »

Checkpoint wrote: Please clarify what or who you meant when you wrote "is born sinful".

Thanks.

Grace and peace to you.
With all due respect, Checkpoint, I fail to see any perceivable lack of clarity in what I said. We are all born sinful... we are all dead in sin. This is the natural state of man. Our sin may not have manifest itself outwardly to anyone, but that matters not. Our nature is what it is from birth.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: It seems like Mark thought Jesus was God

Post #60

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Why do believers need a physical body to live forever?
LOL! The only way to answer that is, God created a physical universe and physical beings to inhabit it. Maybe we don't "need" a physical body to live forever, but that's just how God made it to be. You know, by the same token, does grass "need" to be green? I guess not, but that's how God made... grass... to be... :)

Grass -- whoops! -- I mean grace and peace to you, myth-one. :D

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