intelligent christians?

[cristian_gavrilescu]

when you think that you are smart, poor people are pariah for you, you are a noble

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

[PinSeeker]

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord, what do you think?

Well of course I agree. But what does it really mean to be a servant? A bond servant, as the apostles put it? How would you define that?

[PinSeeker]

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

I'm glad you asked. Thank you.

My first thought is why an omnipotent God would need me for anything?

Why would an omnipotent God need servants?

As I see it, these ancient fables were written in a time when kings and monarchs were in power. Apparently they viewed their Gods in much the same way that they viewed earthy kings. But why?

Obviously earthly kings need servants. The very existence of servants is what gives a king his power. A king who has no army has no power. A king who has no servant can't do anything beyond what he can do for himself.

But why should this apply to a supernatural omnipotent God?

I see these religions as dogma being used by human authoritarians who are trying to humble the masses into becoming servants. Something that a God or a Son of God, should never need.

Besides, what exactly would Jesus need me for?

If he has lost control over his very own creation, he certainly shouldn't need my help to regain control over it. In fact, any God who needs my help with anything would be pretty pathetic don't you think?

This doesn't mean that I then need to be selfish and only care about myself. Far from it. I can be a totally compassionate person who helps my fellow humans anytime I can. In fact, throughout my life I have been accused many times over of allowing others to take advantage of me. And in some cases that was actually true.

In some cases I was so helpful to other people that they did indeed begin to take advantage of me expecting me to fix all their problems. And even do work for them for free, simply because I had offered to do so once. They expected me to continue to do everything for them for free. As you pointed out in another thread, this becomes unrealistic and irresponsible of me to ignore my own welfare by allowing people to walk all over me.

In fact, didn't Jesus teach people that if someone asked you to do something for them to do more than they had asked? I've always done that. And not because Jesus said to do it. I just did it because I like to help people out. But it does become dangerous when they start taking advantage of such generosity on my part.

What you appear to be suggesting here is that we should do everything for Jesus. But then Jesus become the leech. What sense does that make?

I think this goes back to the mindset of kings and monarch. The idea being that everyone in the kingdom should be willing to give their lives for the king.

But is that really realistic? And again, why should an omnipotent God have any need for human servants?

It just doesn't make any sense.

Today, when leaders start acting like monarchical kings we call them "dictators" and they are frowned upon.

Yet this is precisely what Christianity is based on. Jesus is the dictator. He not only expects you to serve him, but he also threatens to condemn you to worse then death if you fail to serve him. That's the behavior we expect from ruthless dictators.

So I don't see where Christianity even makes any sense at all.

A ruthless dictator God who will hurt anyone who refuses to serve him?

In fact you posted it yourself:

6 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

That's not benevolent behavior.

Nor is it a sign of omnipotence. To the contrary, it's a sign of extreme weakness and malevolence. Adolf Hitler threatened people with punishment. Any thug can do that.

Christianity doesn't even make any sense.

Why is Jesus so desperate for servants?

And why is he threatening to cast people into everlasting punishment?

What sense does that make?

Can you please explain this to me?

And again. Thanks for asking what I think.

God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit had everything they "needed" from all eternity, and will for all eternity -- limitless glory, honor, fellowship, and love. Any kind of "desperation" read into that is ridiculous.

What God gives us -- because He created us and is infinitely benevolent and loving (He is love, after all) -- is the privilege and the pleasure of sharing in that limitless glory, honor, fellowship, and love, both now and forevermore. Not that God shares His glory with us, but that we share in it together, and reflect God's glory.

God's purpose is to glorify Himself and to enjoy Himself for all eternity. And God made man to glorify Him and to enjoy Him forever. This is because it pleased God to do this, and also because it is our true Man's true pleasure to do so, as they are fulfilling the purpose for which they are made.

Grace and peace to you, DI.

[PinSeeker]

As a Christian, I would say this. God does not need man for anything. He doesn't need servants. Jesus Christ doesn't need servants. Jesus Christ doesn't need us for anything. And God's creation is not out of His control.

You are correct in that God and Christ are dictatorial. And this will be more perfectly played out when the Millennium reign of Christ begins. That will be a 1000 year literal physical rule by Jesus Christ on earth. He will be sole Dictator. Of course, to the believer, this will be great. But to others, a reign of righteousness will be hell. This brings other questions with it.

Most of your questions revolve around 'why'. If God is God, omipotent, and omniscient, why create this way? And, as a Christian, I have considered, why did God make salvation so difficult? Why make it so that He, God the Son, had to die such a death? In fact, to go farther back, why did God create satan? Why didn't He destroy satan when he rebelled? Why let satan in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Why couldn't we all live as Adam and Eve in paradise and bliss forever?

So many questions of 'why'. But, just like science, it continues to ask questions of the origin of the universe or creation. Yet it does not deny it's existence. And so I the Christian have many questions of God, yet do not deny His existence because I don't have all the answers.

As a believer, I say God is God. He cannot cease to be God. Whatever He does, it is right and good because He cannot cease to be God. God is to be worshiped. Why? Because He is God. To worship Him is right and good. To not worship Him is wrong and evil.

So, in His creation, God has purpose. It is right and good. And it will be brought about. Would I have done it this way? No. But I'm not God. With God, it will work as it will meet His goal. And with God, that is the only criteria to be met.

Quantrill

Oh, I wouldn't say "dictatorial." Dictators are not concerned with loving care of "underlings" in any way; they are only concerned about themselves, and certainly not loving. In no way does this describe our triune Jehovah God. For more on this, see my response to DI above, as it should clarify things. Except for your take on the Millennium reign (which I will address in a moment), I am not necessarily in disagreement with the rest of what you say here, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. Again, what I said above to DI should widen the view and give a clearer picture.

Now. The Millennium. Such a controversial subject among Christians, unfortunately. It should not be so, but one great day, Jesus will set all that right. The Millennial reign of Christ is now -- since His life, death, resurrection, and ascension, and the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus Himself said, 2000-plus years ago, that the kingdom is here now (then). And it is being made fuller and fuller since then, and will be consummated at His return. There will be no "Rapture" -- although certainly Christ's return will be a rapturous event -- and there will be no seven year "Great Tribulation" following any kind of "secret return" of Jesus to take His church out of the world for a period of any length. As Paul says, "...the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God." We will rise to meet Him, for sure, but the Judgment will ensue, and the separation of the tares from the wheat, and then all will be made brand new... the new heaven and new earth. As Isaiah puts it (35:10):

• "...the redeemed shall walk there. And the ransomed of the LORD shall return and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon their heads; they shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

Again, the Millennial reign of Christ -- from heaven -- is now. And now is the time of tribulation. As we near the end of this time, there will be a ramping up of this tribulation, even a great ramping up. But Jesus will return. And when He does, it will be once and for all. And after the Judgment, the Kingdom in its fullness will have begun and will have no end. What a great day that will be!

Grace and peace to you, Quantrill.

[Quantrill]

Oh, I wouldn't say "dictatorial." Dictators are not concerned with loving care of "underlings" in any way; they are only concerned about themselves, and certainly not loving. In no way does this describe our triune Jehovah God. For more on this, see my response to DI above, as it should clarify things. Except for your take on the Millennium reign (which I will address in a moment), I am not necessarily in disagreement with the rest of what you say here, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. Again, what I said above to DI should widen the view and give a clearer picture.

Now. The Millennium. Such a controversial subject among Christians, unfortunately. It should not be so, but one great day, Jesus will set all that right. The Millennial reign of Christ is now -- since His life, death, resurrection, and ascension, and the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Jesus Himself said, 2000-plus years ago, that the kingdom is here now (then). And it is being made fuller and fuller since then, and will be consummated at His return. There will be no "Rapture" -- although certainly Christ's return will be a rapturous event -- and there will be no seven year "Great Tribulation" following any kind of "secret return" of Jesus to take His church out of the world for a period of any length. As Paul says, "...the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God." We will rise to meet Him, for sure, but the Judgment will ensue, and the separation of the tares from the wheat, and then all will be made brand new... the new heaven and new earth. As Isaiah puts it (35:10):

• "...the redeemed shall walk there. And the ransomed of the LORD shall return and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon their heads; they shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

Again, the Millennial reign of Christ -- from heaven -- is now. And now is the time of tribulation. As we near the end of this time, there will be a ramping up of this tribulation, even a great ramping up. But Jesus will return. And when He does, it will be once and for all. And after the Judgment, the Kingdom in its fullness will have begun and will have no end. What a great day that will be!

Grace and peace to you, Quantrill.

Well, one is a dictator when He is sole authority. And God and Christ will be dictators. It will be their way only.

Nothing wrong with a dictator when the dictator is God, except for the unbelieving and haters of God and Christ.

Yes, we disagree about the end time events. So be it. Grace and peace to you also.

Quantrill

[PinSeeker]

Well, one is a dictator when He is sole authority. And God and Christ will be dictators. It will be their way only. Nothing wrong with a dictator when the dictator is God, except for the unbelieving and haters of God and Christ.

Kings are not dictators. There's quite a large difference between a monarchy and a dictatorship. As Isaiah also tells us, "the government shall be on (Christ's) shoulder, and the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end.... (Christ will sit) "on the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness" (Isaiah 9:7). Dictators are not concerned with equitable government, real peace, justice or righteousness.

Yes, we disagree about the end time events. So be it.

Sure.

Grace and peace to you also.

Thank you, brother. And more of the same to you.

[Quantrill]

Kings are not dictators. There's quite a large difference between a monarchy and a dictatorship. As Isaiah also tells us, "the government shall be on (Christ's) shoulder, and the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end.... (Christ will sit) "on the throne of David and over His kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness" (Isaiah 9:7). Dictators are not concerned with equitable government, real peace, justice or righteousness.



Sure.


Thank you, brother. And more of the same to you.

Some Kings are dictators. Sole authority, and their way else the highway, is a dictator. I understand the dislike many have of the term, but as I said, when God and Christ are the Dictators, it is good.

Consider (Ps. 2:7-9) I realize our views of the end times and the Millennium will be different. But, Christ will subjugate the nations to His rule.

Quantrill

[PinSeeker]

Some Kings are dictators.

Yes, some kings are evil, but not God, who is the King of kings.

I understand the dislike many have of the term, but as I said, when God and Christ are the Dictators, it is good.

Nope. A dictator does not govern from a position of love...

-- and is not love, as is the case with the triune Jehovah God -- and is not in any sense a brother, as is the case with Christ, with Whom we are co-heirs of the kingdom --

...and therefore does not rule with love and with enjoyment in and for his subjects, but rather with total detachment and only for himself. And that, Quantrill, goes against everything the Bible is about from beginning to end. So no, God and Christ are not "dictators."

Grace and peace to you.

[Quantrill]

Yes, some kings are evil, but not God, who is the King of kings.

Nope. A dictator does not govern from a position of love...

-- and is not love, as is the case with the triune Jehovah God -- and is not in any sense a brother, as is the case with Christ, with Whom we are co-heirs of the kingdom --

...and therefore does not rule with love and with enjoyment in and for his subjects, but rather with total detachment and only for himself. And that, Quantrill, goes against everything the Bible is about from beginning to end. So no, God and Christ are not "dictators."

Grace and peace to you.

I never said God was evil. Here is your error. Dictator doesn't equate with evil or is opposed to love.

You are trying to make dictator as opposing love. Ridiculous. Dictator is a political rule. Love is an emotion.

God does all things for Himself. It will always be God's way or the highway. Right? Yes God is a God of love. That doesn't stop Him from sending the majority of humans to the Lake of Fire.

God and Christ will and are dictators. It is just that it is good that they are.

I showed you (Ps. 2:7-9) that it doesn't go against the Bible. As I said, God will subjugate the nations...through violence and war. See (Is. 63:1-6) The Messiah will be covered in blood at this time, but it is not His. It is those of His enemies. Of course all is done in Love, but love can mean also destroying that which is opposed to who you love.

Quantrill

[PinSeeker]

I never said God was evil.

But a dictator, Quantrill, elevates his/her self interest far above that of -- and necessarily at the expense of -- others, which is evil. This is your shortsightedness.

You are trying to make dictator as opposing love.

Actually no, but a dictator's actions exclude and/or disregard love, even if love is in some way intended.

Dictator is political rule.

No, a dictatorship is a form of government, but an evil one, and thus sinful. And God is incapable of evil or of sin; both are wholly incompatible with His nature.

Love is an emotion.

Love is an action. The emotion is a natural result of that action, not the other way around. We love because God first loved us (1 John 4:19). This verse is surely not saying merely that we have a warm fuzzy feeling for Him because He first had a warm fuzzy feeling for us.

God does all things for Himself. It will always be God's way or the highway. Right?

Well not quite. Yes, everything God does is for His own pleasure and glory, for sure, but it's not selfish (and thus sinful) -- as it would be for a dictator -- in any way.

Yes God is a God of love.

That's a good start. Now you need to apparently come to a true understanding of what that really means.

That doesn't stop Him from sending the majority of humans to the Lake of Fire.

Ah, now I begin to see more into why you think the way you do (at least on this subject). Why does He do this, do you think?

God and Christ will and are dictators.

Nope. At the very least, dictators do not entertain co-heirs -- which God's Word is very much explicit and crystal clear in saying Christians will be -- of the Kingdom in the New Heaven and New Earth.

It is just that it is good that they are.

It's good that they are not (dictators).

I showed you (Ps. 2:7-9) that it doesn't go against the Bible. As I said, God will subjugate the nations...through violence and war. See (Is. 63:1-6) The Messiah will be covered in blood at this time, but it is not His. It is those of His enemies. Of course all is done in Love, but love can mean also destroying that which is opposed to who you love.

Ah, dispensational theology at its level best... Very much in error, Quantrill. Certainly not to be insulting in any way, but very much in error.

Grace and peace to you.

[Quantrill]

But a dictator, Quantrill, elevates his/her self interest far above that of -- and necessarily at the expense of -- others, which is evil. This is your shortsightedness.

Actually no, but a dictator's actions exclude and/or disregard love, even if love is in some way intended.

No, a dictatorship is a form of government, but an evil one, and thus sinful. And God is incapable of evil or of sin; both are wholly incompatible with His nature.

Love is an action. The emotion is a natural result of that action, not the other way around. We love because God first loved us (1 John 4:19). This verse is surely not saying merely that we have a warm fuzzy feeling for Him because He first had a warm fuzzy feeling for us.

Well not quite. Yes, everything God does is for His own pleasure and glory, for sure, but it's not selfish (and thus sinful) -- as it would be for a dictator -- in any way.


That's a good start. Now you need to apparently come to a true understanding of what that really means.

Ah, now I begin to see more into why you think the way you do (at least on this subject). Why does He do this, do you think?

Nope. At the very least, dictators do not entertain co-heirs -- which God's Word is very much explicit and crystal clear in saying Christians will be -- of the Kingdom in the New Heaven and New Earth.

It's good that they are not (dictators).

Ah, dispensational theology at its level best... Very much in error, Quantrill. Certainly not to be insulting in any way, but very much in error.

Grace and peace to you.

Then you are calling God evil, not me. God does elevate His interests above all others. He does that because His interests are best for us.

Yes, you are setting 'love' in opposition to 'dictator'. That's just your rule. Not God's.

That is what I said. 'Dictator' is a political rule. That makes it a form of government. There is nothing from God that says a 'dictatorship' is evil as opposed to other forms of government which are 'good'. Do you think 'democracy' is evil? How about the Representative Republican form of government. You see, every government of man is evil.

Your use of (1 John 4:19) is flawed. You say love is an action resulting in emotion. That is not true. And you cant use that verse to prove your statement as both involve an emotion, not an action and then emotion. God loved, then we love. It is you that have it backwards.

Of course God does everything for His own pleasure. That is what I am saying. And that doesn't make Him evil. It makes Him God. God's way or the highway is exactly what God does. And that is not evil as that is best.

The point is not why God sends most to the Lake of Fire, the point is that He does. He is a God of love and sends most to the Lake of Fire. Correct or not?

Our reigning with God does not replace God's rule as sole Authority. Do you think you will ever rule in opposition to God's will? Of course not. satan tried that already. God's will is always done. Our will is brought in harmony with His will. Dictator. But, that is a good thing.

Yes, I am Dispensational. That doesn't change the Messianic verse I gave you out of the Bible. Through much vengeance and violence the Kingdom will be brought in.

Quantrill