Why did God kill this guy?

[Elijah John]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

[DavidLeon]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

It's an interesting question. As a rookie believer I was angered at first reading it, as even King David himself was angered at God. It could be a question of faith. God had made it clear that to touch the ark would bring death. As a child I couldn't blame my parents for suffering the consequences if they told me not to stick my fork in the toaster or electric radio in the bath whether I understood the concept of electrocution or not.

If God had told me not to touch the thing I wouldn't have the nerve to try and catch it from falling. I would leave it in his hands.

It's been suggested that it may have actually had some sort of electric properties but I don't know about that. Never actually looked into it.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 17 by 2timothy316]

What makes you so sure that the Bible in it's entirety, is perfect?

Couldn't we fall into the same line of thinking like Uzzah? Treating holy things as irreverent? Was the Ark perfect? Was the Ark man-made? Inside the Ark, it is written were placed the original stones that Jehovah Himself wrote on. The Ark contained the word of God in an imperfect man-made object. Yet Jehovah backed that simple man-made box.

The question we should ask ourselves, how would we treat the Ark if it was in front of me today? Would we reason, 'it's just a box with some useless stones in it'? How did Uzzah become 'irreverent'? How can we?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 17 by 2timothy316]
Did God give us common sense and Reason to no avail? What does Reason say about these recorded events? Would the God who gave us Reason, mercy and compassion have acted this way?

So you want Jehovah to explain Himself to you in every case where you don't understand? Though there are other examples in the Bible of where Jehovah does explain His reason, but if He doesn't explain them all then the Bible is not His word?

Have you considered that the omission of the exact details of why Uzzah was put to death is a test for us to see if we believe Deuteronomy 32:4 to be true? Are we to test Jehovah or is He to test us? Could Uzzah have been testing Jehovah to see if he would really be killed if he touched the Ark?

I agree, it is good to reason, but shouldn't we reason from all points of view and to take in knowledge from many sources. We also have to consider that Jehovah's reasoning is much much higher than ours. If we are convinced that Deuteronomy 32:4 is true, then all actions Jehovah takes are righteous. Even if we don't get all the details.

Proverbs 21:2 says, "All of a man’s ways seem right to him, But Jehovah examines the hearts." Of course you don't have to answer this here, be we all need to ask ourselves, what is our motivation? Mine is to trust Jehovah and I have found no better source for understanding Him than the Bible. So if He saw fit to take Uzzah's life and send him to the grave to await resurrection, if he deserves resurrection, then so be it. The point being, are we using reason? Real reasoning? Or are we acting on emotion or pressure from others for us to present to them or ourselves a loving God according to THEIR/OUR reasoning? What are we trusting in matters of truth and real reasoning and why? We want to exalt God's name, but did Uzzah do that when he was improperly transporting the Ark or when he touched it? Are we if we exalting God's name if we are denouncing the only Book that has given the whole world it's first information on Jehovah?

[Sojournerofthearth]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is a history of God's people Israel, who swore by the blood of their children, to obey all that God had said to do. The laws and statutes and writings and testimonies and judgments are clearly stated.

David knew better, he set up the rotation for the Priesthood that lasted into the time of Christ. O how I love thy law, he states in the Psalms. I meditate on it day and night. I can see where this is confusing to many of us. Most are not familiar with the Laws of Leviticus, the Kohathites, whose job it was to pack up all the tabernacle as they traversed the wilderness for 40 years and how the Ark was to be transported on special poles carried by four members of the Kohathite tribes. But David knew. He knew that there were specific instructions on exactly how to transport the Ark of the Covenant. He knew, every Israelite knew, the Holy of Holies, where the High Priest only could enter once a year on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) housed the Ark. Above the the gold lid, hovered the God of Israel, as it represented the very Throne of God. The Cleansings and rituals proceeding the High Priests entrance On the Day of Atonement were not casual. David knew better than to toss the Ark on a flat bed and proceed like it was the feature float at the Macy Thanksgiving day parade. And if you asked, Uzzah, hey, lay your hand on that gold thing, I feel quite certain that he would have declined the offer, regardless of what you had. It was presumptuous of them all.

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

The God of Israel is a God of Law. If you believe that He created the heavens and the earth, then you would know that the rules set in place are implacable and unyielding. Gravity, for instance, does not consider the reason or the fairness of a person plummeting from a skyscraper. Whether he jumped, was pushed or a poor window washer whose equipment failed, the end result will be the same without regard. It is the law. The law was that only the sons of Kohath are to bear the holy things but they were not to touch them, lest they die.

Num 4:15  And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation. 

He is the God of these people who swore by their own blood to keep holy the things and sayings of God. They made a deal.

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

The tale. They took it fairly casually, as people do.

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

God told Moses to still the people when He stood on the Mount to deliver the law, that because He stood on the Mount, it was Holy Ground. If they broke through, they would die. He is a God of Law. We tend to always try to get around the penalties of the law. We pay lawyers and statesmen thousands to do that. God is merciful, patient but that is not to be confused with tolerant or compromising.

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I think he reacted. It was a series of bad choices, like trying to grab a falling knife or a burning coal. whatever your intention, the result will be the same. He was rewarded. The reward (penalty) of sin is death.

According to the Bible, if one is so inclined...

Soj

[Icey]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

There' are a few scenarios as I see it:
1) It was a story written by a guy that didn't know the whole truth
2) It was a story written by a guy to make people fear God
3) It was a story written by a guy with an agenda of some type
4) God is a monster, as you said or
5) Being limited, we can't understand why an unlimited being would do such a thing and thus, it must have had a good reason


Everything is simply speculation at best IMO

[onewithhim]

Why did God kill the guy who attempted to steady the ark?

For debate, and from this incident.

1) What does that teach us about God?

2) What does that teach us about the folks who wrote the tale?

3) Is there some other, reasonable explanation of why this guy died or why he was killed?

4) Do you think this guy who was trying to protect something sacred, deserved to be punished with death his efforts? Should he have been rewarded instead?

I deliberately put this topic on TD&D and not on C&A because I hope to minimize the reflexive "this proves the Bible God is a monster" type replies.

1) It teaches us that God is serious when He tells someone to do something a certain way. He has always said that we must OBEY Him. The people who were transferring the Ark were doing so in opposition to Jehovah's instructions. If they had obeyed Him, Uzzah would never have been in that position at all.