GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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shawnskin
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GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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I get hung up right in genesis when after he creates us and we sin he regrets making us. (and all powerful being should not have regrets ) I believe there’s a God, Or more accurately something going on so far beyond our understanding that Other than a small glimpse our human minds are not capable of understanding it. our brains/egos would rather make something up and admit we don’t understand, come to believe that people Who think they know Gods will ,understand him ,and can speak for him ,are either delusional Or deceitful...I believe we have created God In our on image.and What is really going on iso much more amazing than we can ever imagine

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Wow..It took me a while to get back to this my phone is broke and finally got a new one and was able to log back on.. i’ve gotten through three or four and so far I’m impressed with some of the answers although not swayed I’ve been thinking on this subject for about 40 years now and have been the one arguing for and the one against
My realization is no one is incorrect from their perspective and in order to get the full picture I need to consider everyone’s perspective in order to see something in 360° I have to review it for more than the angle I occupy

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Post by thomasdixon »

GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

(Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.
(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

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Miles
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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Post by Miles »

thomasdixon wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:20 pm GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?
Because he recognizes he made a mistake. And considering that . . .

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

. . . we know he said he does.

Genesis 6:6
And the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved at heart.

1 Samuel 15:35
Samuel never saw Saul again before he died, but he grieved over Saul. However, the Lord regretted making Saul king over Israel.

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:44 pm
thomasdixon wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:20 pm GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?
Because he recognizes he made a mistake.
No that is not true. Saul made the error, those violent people before the flood were making the error. It shows that He doesn't predict how everyone will act thus He can and does feel sad and disappointed when there is a bad result from people's actions. Saul started off as a humble and outstanding person. He didn't stay that way and Jehovah regrets that His choice didn't stay good. Perhaps even thinking that He would like to go back and not appoint Saul, not because of God's error but because of Saul's error.

An example of this is: lets say we bring two people together for a date. We know these people very well and they are outstanding people to be around. They hit it off, court each other and get married. 10 years into the marriage they treat each other like garbage. They end up getting a divorce and what's worse, one even commits suicide.

Is how that marriage played out our fault because we brought them together? Is that person's death on our hands? Might we feel regret for bringing them together all those years ago? Though we played a part in bringing that couple together we didn't know what would happen 10 years down the road. Yet we might feel bad that we ever brought them together, yet the error is not the result of our bringing them together. If a person does feel responsible, then they are holding themselves responsible for people's behavior and that is unrealistic and ridiculous.

This the same situation as in the Bible. Jehovah put mankind on the earth to be peaceful loving people. That is not what people chose to be. That is not God's fault as He doesn't make people's decisions for them. However, he can feel sad and disappointed for what became of them. Yes, maybe even wishing that He had never even made them, not because He made an error but because of the people's errors.

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

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Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:57 am
Miles wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:44 pm
thomasdixon wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:20 pm GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?
Because he recognizes he made a mistake.
No that is not true. Saul made the error, those violent people before the flood were making the error. It shows that He doesn't predict how everyone will act thus He can and does feel sad and disappointed when there is a bad result from people's actions. Saul started off as a humble and outstanding person. He didn't stay that way and Jehovah regrets that His choice didn't stay good. Perhaps even thinking that He would like to go back and not appoint Saul, not because of God's error but because of Saul's error.

An example of this is: lets say we bring two people together for a date. We know these people very well and they are outstanding people to be around. They hit it off, court each other and get married. 10 years into the marriage they treat each other like garbage. They end up getting a divorce and what's worse, one even commits suicide.

Is how that marriage played out our fault because we brought them together? Is that person's death on our hands? Might we feel regret for bringing them together all those years ago? Though we played a part in bringing that couple together we didn't know what would happen 10 years down the road. Yet we might feel bad that we ever brought them together, yet the error is not the result of our bringing them together. If a person does feel responsible, then they are holding themselves responsible for people's behavior and that is unrealistic and ridiculous.

This the same situation as in the Bible. Jehovah put mankind on the earth to be peaceful loving people. That is not what people chose to be. That is not God's fault as He doesn't make people's decisions for them. However, he can feel sad and disappointed for what became of them. Yes, maybe even wishing that He had never even made them, not because He made an error but because of the people's errors.
So you're saying that when god "breathed out"* 1 Samuel 15:35 he made a mistake when he said ". . . the Lord regretted making Saul king over Israel"? That god didn't regret making Saul king over Israel at all?



*From 2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction . . . ."

"In 2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV), Paul states, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which literally means "God-breathed." It joins the words theos (God) with pneustos (breath) to convey the idea that Scripture is breathed out by God, serving as an extension of God Himself."
source

There's also Proverbs 30:5-6, where one reads:

"Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. "

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

Post #17

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:01 am [Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: How can a perfect God "regret"?
Genesis 6:
[6] And it repented [regretted] the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Various scriptures in the bible speak of God feeling "regret" or "repenting" of certain actions. The original Hebrew word translated into the English is NaHaM and it basically pertains to a change of attitude or intention. While in humans this may be due to past errors this is not inherent in the word itself. Just as someone may say "I'm sorry it has come to this" reflecting not necessarily an error on their part but a feeling of regret that events have lead to a particular action, God was "sorry" or "repented" (naham) at the way humans had exercised their free will had necessitated a "change in intended actions" on His part. G. J. Wenham, an Old Testament scholar at Cambridge University, writes:
"'Regret' or 'repent' may suggest a change of attitude, but when God 'repents,' he starts to act differently. Here [Gen. 6:6] and in 1 Sam 15:11 and Jer 18:10 he regrets some good thing he has done for his people, whereas in Exod 32:12, 14; 2 Sam. 24:16; Amos 7:3, 6 he repents of some evil he is carrying out. That God should change his mind might lead to his being accused of capriciousness, which Scripture firmly denies: 'God is not a son of man that he should repent' (Num 23:19; Cf. 1 Sam 15:29). Such remarks obviously raise various questions for the doctrine of divine sovereignty and its correlate human responsibility, but theological systematization is hardly the concern of the biblical narrators. For them divine repentance is a response to man's changes of heart, whether for better or worse" - Wenham, J. G. Genesis 1-15. Waco, Texas: Word, 1987, 144.


CONCLUSION verses such as Genesis 6:6 does not support the idea that God makes mistakes or errors, rather it reflects his feelings about the need He saw to "change his mind" as to his intended treatment of humans due to their own wicked actions. See NOTES below viewtopic.php?p=1018449#p1018449


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


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Excellent response to the OP. Certainly Jehovah would not make a mistake concerning anything He does. "I'm sorry it has come to this" reflects the proper understanding of His "regret."

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

Post #18

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:20 pm
So you're saying that when god "breathed out"* 1 Samuel 15:35 he made a mistake when he said ". . . the Lord regretted making Saul king over Israel"? That god didn't regret making Saul king over Israel at all?
Read my reply carefully. I didn't say he didn't have regret. He didn't have any regrets at the time of Saul's appointment. Later on yes, Jehovah didn't expect Saul to turn into the person that he turned out to be. The Bible says that He regretted then He did. But not because He made an error but because Saul made the error of becoming an evil person.

You're trying to make it God's error but it's not. You must be thinking that regret always means a person has erred from bad judgement but it doesn't. At the time of Saul's appointment he was the best choice in all the land. Later that person became a haughty murderer. God didn't force that to happen nor did He know it would. So It's not Jehovah's mistake though he felt regret later.

I regret things all the time but many times its not because of anything I did or had control of. I regret the night I went to work as a delivery driver and was rear ended. I didn't see that coming and It wasn't my fault for going to work.

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

Post #19

Post by Miles »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:25 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:20 pm
So you're saying that when god "breathed out"* 1 Samuel 15:35 he made a mistake when he said ". . . the Lord regretted making Saul king over Israel"? That god didn't regret making Saul king over Israel at all?
Read my reply carefully. I didn't say he didn't have regret.
You're quite right. My apologies for not reading more carefully. But the issue isn't when god had regrets, but that he had any regrets at all. And the answer is, yes he did. He regretted/repented/was (very) sorry/was (very) sad/grieved* that he made Saul king over Israel.

He didn't have any regrets at the time of Saul's appointment. Later on yes, Jehovah didn't expect Saul to turn into the person that he turned out to be. The Bible says that He regretted then He did. But not because He made an error but because Saul made the error of becoming an evil person.
Where? Where does it say god regretted what Saul did? It doesn't. What it does say is that he, the lord, regretted what HE himself had done. "Lord was very sorry that he had made Saul king of Israel."


So why does a person regret/repent/is (very) sorry/is (very) sad/or grieves for something they did? Is it because what they did was

right
correct
just
fair
equitable
good
upright
righteous
virtuous
proper
moral
morally justified
ethical
honorable
honest
principled
lawful
legal

Or because what they did was

incorrect
mistaken
in error
erroneous
inaccurate
not accurate
inexact
not exact
imprecise
invalid
untrue
false
fallacious
wide of the mark
wrong?

You're trying to make it God's error but it's not.
If god had not made Saul king over Israel do you think Saul would have been able to commit the transgressions he did? Of course not. So who is responsible for giving Saul the opportunity to do so? GOD!!! And was this a correct decision on god's part or an erroneous one? It was an ERRONEOUS decision.


ner·ro·ne·ous
/əˈrōnēəs/
adjective: erroneous
wrong; incorrect.
"employers sometimes make erroneous assumptions"

:wrong, incorrect, mistaken, in error, inaccurate


.................................................................GOD MADE A MISTAKE


You must be thinking that regret always means a person has erred from bad judgement but it doesn't. At the time of Saul's appointment he was the best choice in all the land. Later that person became a haughty murderer.
And you don't think making Saul king over Israel was bad judgement on the part of an all-knowing god? Was it good judgement? God's judgment was wrong/incorrect/mistaken/in error. It was erroneous.
God didn't force that to happen
Nope, but he made the mistake of opening up the opportunity to Saul.

"The Lord was sorry he had made Saul the king of Israel." (1 Samuel 15:35)



* Depending on the Bible version.

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Re: GOD has regrets? how can an omnipotent being regret something?

Post #20

Post by 2timothy316 »

Miles wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:51 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:25 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:20 pm
So you're saying that when god "breathed out"* 1 Samuel 15:35 he made a mistake when he said ". . . the Lord regretted making Saul king over Israel"? That god didn't regret making Saul king over Israel at all?
Read my reply carefully. I didn't say he didn't have regret.
You're quite right. My apologies for not reading more carefully. But the issue isn't when god had regrets, but that he had any regrets at all. And the answer is, yes he did. He regretted/repented/was (very) sorry/was (very) sad/grieved* that he made Saul king over Israel.
I'm not disputing His regret. I'm disputing that you think He made a mistake when He when he didn't. He was sad and grieved but not repentant.
You have lumped regret and repent together and that is not always the case I have given you numerous examples.

The Bible is using the word regret as a noun.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regret
Definition of regret (Entry 2 of 2)
1 : sorrow aroused by circumstances beyond one's control or power to repair
2a : an expression of distressing emotion (such as sorrow)

This is the definition being used in the Bible. One can be sorry what happened but not be responsible. Just like if I hired you to a job you're good for, only for you to steal from the company. I can feel sorrow for hiring you but it's not my fault you turned into a crook. I thought I was hiring a good worker. Jehovah was in the same position. You're just biased wanting to make it seem like God makes mistakes and don't accept there are other definitions to words.

Jehovah is not at fault for what Saul did but he did have distressing emotion over what became of His choice.

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