A Promise Unkept

[Miles]

Matthew 18:19 came up in a discussion the other day. It was being argued that while at one time god may have cared about mankind, he has since lost all interest in us, As evidence is his complete disregard of the promise he made (in his persona as Jesus) to grant prayers. It was pointed out that as much as peace on earth was prayed for, god has never granted it. That no matter how much two parents prayed for the recovery of their dying child, god let her die anyway. That no matter how much two children prayed for the return of their runaway pet Rover, god never saw fit to bring him back

Because a scriptural passage may read differently depending on which Bible one reads, I've listed six slightly different versions here so as to make it clear what Jesus is saying.

Matthew 18:19
(ERV)
To say it another way, if two of you on earth agree on anything you pray for, my Father in heaven will do what you ask.

(NABRE)
Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.

(NRSV)
Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

(KJV)
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

(NMB)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree in earth about any manner of thing, whatsoever they desire, it shall be given them by my Father who is in heaven.

(RSVCE)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.



So, what do you think happened here?

A) Jesus was wrong and misspoke about what his alter ego would do.

B) Jesus didn't misspeak, but somewhere down the line god the father changed his mind.

.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to koko in post #30]

The only healer I know is God. Various ministers, through God, healed me, my own children. I've seen a great many things over the last 40 years. It wasn't the man, it was God working through them. There are numerous groups now, go by Church of God. This church of God or that. Very few of them hold to the things they used to. They keep the laws of God. Keep the Sabbaths, weekly and yearly. Seek after a Kingdom whose builder and maker is God. However, if you're looking for a sideshow, you'll never see it. God's not out to try and prove Himself.

It's not about a miracle man. It's about a change in your way of life.

video exposés on youtube Like you could expose God as a fraud on CNN. That's rich.

Soj

[koko]

[Replying to koko in post #30]

The only healer I know is God. Various ministers, through God, healed me, my own children. I've seen a great many things over the last 40 years. It wasn't the man, it was God working through them. There are numerous groups now, go by Church of God. This church of God or that. Very few of them hold to the things they used to. They keep the laws of God. Keep the Sabbaths, weekly and yearly. Seek after a Kingdom whose builder and maker is God. However, if you're looking for a sideshow, you'll never see it. God's not out to try and prove Himself.

It's not about a miracle man. It's about a change in your way of life.

video exposés on youtube Like you could expose God as a fraud on CNN. That's rich.

Soj

Initially, you said this took place in an unidentified church which has since splintered. Now you say there is or was no such institution. Then you say it is individual ministers who do these things. Fine. Identify them so that those of us who need the healing can partake of them. Nobody is asking for a sideshow nor for any god to prove himself. All I'm asking for is healing in a manner consistent with biblical teaching. So let's have it. Please remember the teaching "ask and ye shall receive". On that basis my request must not be denied.


As for those exposés one need only check them out on YT because facts speak for themselves as those videos prove the fraudulent nature of the preachers, not of god.

[koko]

However, if you're looking for a sideshow, you'll never see it. God's not out to try and prove Himself.

As I mentioned somewhere else, whenever Jesus healed the sick he always said "thy sins are forgiven". This because the miraculous healings represented visible proof of the divine forgiveness of sin. After all, Jesus came to become humanity's redeemer. Never in my life have I ever seen anyone describe these proofs of divine redemption as a "sideshow". Frankly, I am quite shock at the use of such a word. All I ask for is for the Bible's promises to be fuflilled. Nothing more.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to koko in post #33]

Mea Culpa... I misread you.

My sincerest apologies, koko. It appears I overstepped the boundary.

Healing is very much tied in with forgiveness of sin, as illness and disease are interlinked with sin. The way we live, the way we eat, the way we abuse the earth, all have a great affect on our well-being. Christ was full of compassion and mercy toward His people. And While I do believe, very much, in Godly intervention in our lives, to include healing, what occurred at the time of Christ and at the time when I was younger, was to establish a firm realization of God's presence and where God was working. At the beginning of the disciples ministry, there were very many stunning miracles. Toward the end, there were fewer. But it was always tied to obedience and repentance and growing in faith, love and understanding of God and His word.

If the Bible proves anything about miracles, it proves that no matter how spectacular the miracle may be, even such as raising one from the dead, or parting the sea to escape certain death, the shock and awe effect does not stay with a person, or a people for very long. They certainly can change your life and establish the realization of the reality of God and give you a glimpse into world you can't "see." But the dazzle dies out almost as fast as the sizzle of the bright colorful fireworks displays.

What really makes them real to you, is seeing how God's word applies to your life, and to really make it pop, He lets you have a peek into His own power, that through His mercy toward you, He establishes that His word is true and faithful and more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

koko wrote:
Initially, you said this took place in an unidentified church which has since splintered. Now you say there is or was no such institution. Then you say it is individual ministers who do these things. Fine. Identify them so that those of us who need the healing can partake of them. Nobody is asking for a sideshow nor for any god to prove himself. All I'm asking for is healing in a manner consistent with biblical teaching. So let's have it. Please remember the teaching "ask and ye shall receive". On that basis my request must not be denied.

I didn't say there was no such institution. I said it's shattered into hundreds of pieces. I didn't mean to offend you, but I'm not sure what it is that you want from me.

Soj

[PinSeeker]

However, if you're looking for a sideshow, you'll never see it. God's not out to try and prove Himself.

As I mentioned somewhere else, whenever Jesus healed the sick he always said "thy sins are forgiven". This because the miraculous healings represented visible proof of the divine forgiveness of sin.

I would disagree with that, koko. I mean, I think when you hear what I have to say, you'll say, "Yes, that's what I meant to say." I think.

Anyway, I would say, this is because Jesus was actively conveying the message -- not only to the one being healed but also to the observers and to us -- that the real healing needed by all is salvation, and not merely healing of bodily affliction. Wouldn't you say? Like you say, Jesus came to redeem humanity. God Himself is the Great Physician. So, although I wouldn't use that exact word, it is sort of a "sideshow." Sort of. Again, I wouldn't characterize it in that particular way, but the healing acts that Jesus performed did merely (although no mere thing) represent visually the true healing needed by men. Right?

[koko]

There is no question that divine miracles such as healing the sick, raising the dead, and feeding masses of people are not a "sideshow". They are outward manifestations of the fulfillment of Jesus's mission which was to redeem mankind. He said "ask and ye shall receive" (he did not say you may possibly receive), "He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things", "how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him".

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... ing-Freely


In the Bible we are told to ask secretly and god will reward you openly (Matthew 6:6 ~ But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.). All you need is to ask for it. Since he did not answer my calls for good health, I hereby ask openly so that he may reward me secretly. Without this forgiveness, without these miracles, and because of these unkept promises, Jesus is a total FAIL. Hate to phrase it that way but there just isn't any way to more accurately illustrate this truth. Over the years I have known others who have suffered in life and take the same attitude. This is why so many people leave the church as it fails to provide the answers that are needed by so many.

If Jesus provided all these blessings to you, great. Now it's time for him to keep that same promise to me.

[PinSeeker]

If Jesus provided all these blessings to you, great.

Well, all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus:

• "For all the promises of God find their Yes in (Christ)." (2 Corinthians 1:20)

• "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).

Now, it might behoove you to remember that these promises are made to believers, those whose hearts have truly been converted to Christ...

Now it's time for him to keep that same promise to me.

He keeps His promises, period. Now, He may not do it the way you want Him to... but He keeps them. You can do what you want, of course, but I would advise steering clear of thinking of the triune Jehovah God as a "total fail" in any way and rather know that the total opposite is true.

This is a rhetorical question, but what are you asking for? Money? A big house? A super model spouse?

[koko]

Well, all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus.
He keeps His promises, period. Now, He may not do it the way you want Him to... but He keeps them.
This is a rhetorical question, but what are you asking for? Money? A big house? A super model spouse?

Good health. As I previously mentioned, was born sick and have never known a day of good health in my entire life. And let's have the rest of the Bible fulfilled as well such as the one hundred fold (Mark 10:30) reward for any good I've done. Still waiting.

[PinSeeker]

Good health.

Gotcha.

As I previously mentioned, was born sick and have never known a day of good health in my entire life.

Really sorry to hear that. I have my afflictions, too ("thorns of the flesh," as Paul put it; he had at least one, too, you know, but we are not told what it was and therefore do not know). But even if you are not healed in this life, don't you think you can still be blessed by the Lord? God causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust alike (Matthew 5:45).

And let's have the rest of the Bible fulfilled as well such as the one hundred fold (Mark 10:30) reward for any good I've done. Still waiting.

Yes, well, all will be fulfilled in the fullness of time -- God's time.

As for you in particular, in this life -- in this life -- your wait may not end. But this life is not all there is. If you believe on Christ, again, it may not be in this life, but it will end. So, like Paul, fight the good fight, finish the race, keep the faith. If you do, there is laid up for you the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to you on that day (2 Timothy 4:7-8). Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God (Hebrews 12:2). If you are a good and faithful servant, you will be rewarded and will enter into the joy of your Master (Matthew 25:23). He will wipe away every tear from your eyes, and death will be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore (Revelation 21:4); all sorrow and sighing will flee away (Isaiah 35:10).

Grace and peace to you, koko. Grace and peace to you.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]

How do you understand this (John 14:12):

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Has it something to do with bringing dead people back to life? Or?

Your friend forever

Waterfall