What is Man?

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Sojournerofthearth
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What is Man?

Post #1

Post by Sojournerofthearth »

I know there are a wide variety of beliefs in this forum, encompassing any imaginable range of ideologies of who and what God is.

But I am curious, what, do you believe, is the purpose for the creation of mankind?

Why did God create Him?
What is the purpose of his existence on this Earth at this time?
What do you believe is the role of mankind in the resurrection?
And what do you believe, at his "change" that he will be changed to?
And what do you believe is the criteria to attain that resurrection?
What will prevent him from receiving his reward?
What do you base your beliefs, regarding mankind, on?

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Re: What is Man?

Post #21

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:18 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:10 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:01 am As long as God gives commandments and the beings He created have the freedom to obey or disobey those laws, sin will always be an option. So which case will it be? Will the commandments from God go away? Or will our freedom of choice go away?
The commandments will remain, for sure. But it's not about "freedom," or any lack thereof. It's about the fact that we'll finally be wholly and completely redeemed, renewed, and glorified. That being the case, we will therefore not be inclined in any way whatsoever to sin but completely against it. Therefore, we will be incapable of sin from that time forth and forevermore.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.
1) God's laws will still exist.
2) Disobeying God's law is sin.
3) Born again Christians may choose to obey or disobey God's law.
4) Therefore, they will be incapable of committing any sin eternally.

That's how it works?
LOL! No, that's not "how it works" at all, really. Or, well, sort of, I guess... it's just very simplistic. To restate:

Yes, God's Law is eternal. And as Jesus said, the whole Law is summed up in two great commandments: in order, 1.) to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and 2.) to love your neighbor as yourself. In glory -- when we are fully redeemed, renewed, and glorified -- we will do both of these things perfectly, and we will thus be wholly inclined against sin of any kind and willing and able to refrain from any sin whatsoever for any reason. Our very nature will be wholly inclined against sin, and no one -- even God -- can act against his nature. Therefore, we will be incapable of sin -- as God is now (and always has been). And this will be true for eternity.

It's really not hard to understand; my advice is, don't make it so.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #22

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #18]

Zero scriptural support in your post, per normal. You're reply is void of reference and full of only personal opinion.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #23

Post by 2timothy316 »

PinSeeker wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:46 pm
LOL! No, that's not "how it works" at all, really. Or, well, sort of, I guess... it's just very simplistic. To restate:
Another oxymoron... 'No that is not how it works....or well sort of'... you guess? Are guesses acceptable in understanding the Almighty God? Why should anyone listen to rebuttals that are guesses?

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Re: What is Man?

Post #24

Post by PinSeeker »

Rest assured, 2timothy, that on every point on which our understandings are opposed to each other, every comment of these types you make toward me are reciprocated in full. Beyond that, why you're so bitter and angry is a mystery to me, but, quite frankly, I have no interest in having that mystery resolved.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #25

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #24]

It's not you. Its the misleading 'understandings' that have entangled you and that entangle others that I dislike intensely. Why you accept them and propagate them with out any bible support is a mystery to me. I on the other hand, DO wish do want to have the mystery resolved because these misleading unscriptural 'understandings' are going to cost lives. The more I learn WHY people hold on to these 'understandings' the better I get at helping humble people who really do care what the Bible says to the narrow and cramped road to life. Every reply you give me with no scriptural support tells me those that follow these 'understandings' like yours have no need for truth and I have to find a way to spark in them a want to know Bible truth and not some 'understanding' they are told they must believe to be a Christian. Some people's concern about themselves being right overshadowing saving people by directing them to the Bible is so sad. God's word saves people yet Pinseeker you don't direct people to this, only your 'understandings'.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #26

Post by Sojournerofthearth »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:18 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:10 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:01 am As long as God gives commandments and the beings He created have the freedom to obey or disobey those laws, sin will always be an option. So which case will it be? Will the commandments from God go away? Or will our freedom of choice go away?
The commandments will remain, for sure. But it's not about "freedom," or any lack thereof. It's about the fact that we'll finally be wholly and completely redeemed, renewed, and glorified. That being the case, we will therefore not be inclined in any way whatsoever to sin but completely against it. Therefore, we will be incapable of sin from that time forth and forevermore.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.
1) God's laws will still exist.
2) Disobeying God's law is sin.
3) Born again Christians may choose to obey or disobey God's law.
4) Therefore, they will be incapable of committing any sin eternally.

That's how it works?
Good Evening myth-one.com

That is not how it works. That is how it works now. God's law stands to condemn those who fail to keep it. We are woefully inadequate at maintaining steady levels of righteousness, even among those who strive with all of their being to do so. Christ came and magnified the law, beyond just what you do and don't do, which was already hard enough, but took it to a level of what you think and don't think. So you might be feeling pretty good about yourself for not giving that guy a poke in the nose, but even the fact that you still regretted not doing it, left you short of the mark. We're to bring every thought into captivity. We're to come to the place where we love, even those who hate us. Even if we brought every action into a stringent obedience, our minds breach the wall. It is humanly impossible. Only a God being does not sin. No human will ever be free of it.

But while we were created human, subject to corruption of every kind, we also were made with a human spirit that can link to the Spirit of God. Those who are called, receive a portion of that Spirit, that impregnates the human spirit, and through continual exercise of applying Godly law and principles to every facet of their lives, repenting from human works, and over the course of time, that Spirit changes them, a new creation, to eventually be born into the family of God, with a Godly will that will not sin.

That's how it works.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #27

Post by PinSeeker »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm It's not you.
Then why do you attack me personally? Why are you so spiteful and hateful in your responses? Not that I care, but you seem to not have a congenial bone in your body, at least toward me in particular.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm Its the misleading 'understandings' that have entangled you and that entangle others that I dislike intensely.
Okay, well I would say the EXACT SAME THING to you (and Jehovah's Witnesses generally). But I don't attack them personally for it. As best I can, I strive to love them in every possible way. You? Not so much, no.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm Why you accept them and propagate them with out any bible support is a mystery to me.
See, you can't say that with any credibility. And it comes across as spitefulness and hatefulness. You may think and say that what I "accept and propagate" because of the Scriptural evidence I see is wrong, and that's fine. But you can't say that I accept and propagate any of what I accept and propagate "without any biblical support." You can't. I've offered nothing but Scriptural support in all my posts. That you disagree is clear, but that's all it is -- disagreement. Not to trivialize anything, but that's all it is.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm I on the other hand, DO wish do want to have the mystery resolved because these misleading unscriptural 'understandings' are going to cost lives.
Well, you know, God is sovereign over all that. This is not to be dismissive, and certainly not to give any impression of not caring. But God is sovereign over all His creation. In particular to what we are talking about. God ordains all the days of the lives of all before any of them have lived even one (Psalm 139:16). Everything happens according to God's purposes. And for believers in particular, God works all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28).
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm The more I learn WHY people hold on to these 'understandings' the better I get at helping humble people who really do care what the Bible says to the narrow and cramped road to life.
LOL. Well, I'm sure you would say the same thing of me, and that's fine, but I say the more you learn why Jehovah's Witnesses believe what they do, the better you get at refuting others' understandings of Scriptures that differ from the Watchtower's heresies. And anyone that calls them out for what they are you deem not humble.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm Every reply you give me with no scriptural support tells me those that follow these 'understandings' like yours have no need for truth...
See, again, you can't say that with any credibility. That you disagree is clear. And that's where you should leave it. I have "no need for truth"? That's absolutely ridiculous, and you know it. You may think I'm mistaken about the truth, but the statement that I and anyone who understands Scripture along the same lines as I seek after God's truth with our whole hearts. To say otherwise is ridiculous. And you know it, and you should have the humility to admit it. But, again, whether you do or not is really inconsequential to me; you're your own person.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm ...and I have to find a way to spark in them a want to know Bible truth and not some 'understanding' they are told they must believe to be a Christian.
See, no disrespect intended, but you're wrong about that. It's not up to you. You have a responsibility to proclaim the Gospel, as we all do. But Some people's concern about themselves being right overshadowing saving people by directing them to the Bible is so sad.
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm God's word saves people yet Pinseeker you don't direct people to this, only your 'understandings'.
Well, God saves people. God's Word, Jesus, performed the work of atonement that makes possible people being redeemed and thus saved. And the Holy Spirit gives new life to members of the Father's Elect according to the Father's will, at the Father's appointed times. You (and others) disagree, of course, as miles and miles of bandwidth attests, and that's too bad, but obviously, I cannot (and no one else can) make someone believe this. In the end, God is sovereign over all that. If one is Elect, then at the appointed time, the Spirit will move and he or she will come to repentance and believe. God's purposes cannot be thwarted (Job 42:2). Once the full impact of that is realized, then the weight (which was always only self-inflicted) is lifted off one's shoulders. As I have said many time, my job is merely to proclaim. God will use that -- or not -- according to His will.

Grace and peace to you, 2timothy316

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Re: What is Man?

Post #28

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:46 pm Therefore, we will be incapable of sin -- as God is now (and always has been). And this will be true for eternity.

It's really not hard to understand; my advice is, don't make it so.
It's simple to understand.

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:
I John 3:4 wrote:For sin is the transgression of the law.
Any being which can make a choice, can choose to disobey a commandment given to him or her by God.

Therefore, no being who can choose to obey or disobey God's commandments will ever be incapable of committing a sin.

====================================================

To become incapable of committing a sin, one or both requirements required for committing a sin must be removed. Either the commandments of God, freedom of choice, or both.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #29

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 pm Any being which can make a choice, can choose to disobey a commandment given to him or her by God. Therefore, no being who can choose to obey or disobey God's commandments will ever be incapable of committing a sin.
Okay, myth-one, this is my last comment to you on this subject:

The incapability of committing sin that we will have has nothing to do with our mere ability to make choices or to do sinful things, myth-one. It has to so with our nature, which will drive our choices and actions (which has always been the case and always will be). As I said, because we will be completely redeemed and glorified -- and our natures purified -- we will be wholly and completely inclined away from sin and toward righteousness. So then it follows that, given any choice regarding any action, we will choose, myth-one, every single time, righteousness over sin, and therefore our actions will be sinless. Because of this inclination, this very nature, we will be incapable of -- not merely "unable to" -- sin. You're right, it's not hard to understand, but you're making it so.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: What is Man?

Post #30

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:12 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 pm Any being which can make a choice, can choose to disobey a commandment given to him or her by God. Therefore, no being who can choose to obey or disobey God's commandments will ever be incapable of committing a sin.
Okay, myth-one, this is my last comment to you on this subject:

The incapability of committing sin that we will have has nothing to do with our mere ability to make choices or to do sinful things, myth-one. It has to so with our nature, which will drive our choices and actions (which has always been the case and always will be). As I said, because we will be completely redeemed and glorified -- and our natures purified -- we will be wholly and completely inclined away from sin and toward righteousness. So then it follows that, given any choice regarding any action, we will choose, myth-one, every single time, righteousness over sin, and therefore our actions will be sinless. Because of this inclination, this very nature, we will be incapable of -- not merely "unable to" -- sin. You're right, it's not hard to understand, but you're making it so.

Grace and peace to you.
Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36)

Angels have a history of sinning.

If humans born again as spirits into the Kingdom of God will never sin, then it would seem that we are better than the angels.

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