Is Jesus a created being?

[Wootah]

Colossians 1:16-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
16 For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-16.htm

So Jesus is uncreated yeah?

[Wootah]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #11]

Did the heavens exist before Jesus?

DavidLeon - Did the heavens exist before Jesus?

[woodtick]

[Replying to Sojournerofthearth in post #18]

[GG93]

It depends on which Christian demonition you ask

[Tcg]

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It depends on which Christian demonition you ask

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to woodtick in post #22]
Good Evening Woodtick,

Concordant Literal Version:
Your throne, O Elohim, is for the eon and further; A scepter of equity is the scepter of Your kingdom. (italicized words are implied usually by the interpreter)

Psa 45:6  Thy throne,H3678 (canopied seat, as in the mercy seat) O God,H430 (Elohim, plural for God, as in The Father, as revealed by Christ and The word, Melchisedek) is (italicized words are implied usually by the interpreter) for ever H5769 (Eternity, time out of mind) and ever: H5703 (perpetuity) the sceptre H7626 (Rod usually used for ruling) of thy kingdom H4438 (Kingdom, dominion) is a right H4334 (justice, equity) sceptre.H7626 
45:6
אְ סִ כּ
ksa·k
throne-of·you
אֱ*הִ ים
aleim
Elohim
עלָ ם
oulm
eon
וָעֶד
u·od
and·futurity
שֵׁ בֶ ט
shbt
scepter-of
מִ ישֹׁ ר
mishr
equity
שֵׁ בֶ ט
shbt
scepter-of
מַ לְ כוּתֶ )
mlkuth·k
kingdom-of·you

I'm not Trinitrian. I was raised that way. I'm not Jewish. However, I am pretty familiar with the Bible, OT and NT. It's common, in fact, it is more likely to be done, that one would massage the scriptures to reflect their doctrinal beliefs. The bible does add in words, sometimes, to clarify because often articles and conjunctions, are not included in the text so they are added in, hopefully to help clarify but sometimes to redefine a text. Above are the KJV with Strong's numbers, The ISA with Hebrew and the Concordant Literal Version. None of them even imply the word given, but, bottom line, it's not in the Hebrew text, as I understand it. I'm no scholar. I might have missed something.

Not to imply that Jewish publications might have any agenda to redefine prophecy... I'm not sure where the extra word comes from. I can't find it, myself.

However, the plural use of Elohim, is common throughout the OT. For instance, Isaiah 54:5: "For your Maker is your husband…" [Literally in the Hebrew : makers, husbands,] Notice that "makers" and "husbands" are plural. IOW, Thy Makers are thy Husbands. Let us make man in Our Image. Behold, the man is become as one of us. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

And there is a lot more... not to mention that no man has seen the Father at any time... but then, who did Moses see?..

Before Abraham was, I am.

Soj

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to GG93 in post #23]

not to impose on the moderators judgment... however

GG93 wrote:
It depends on which Christian denomination [sic] you ask

actually seems a valid assessment of who believes what about the origin of the Christ. Everyone reads the same book. Everyone comes to a different conclusion. Yet, it flies in the face of

Act 2:1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 

1Co 1:10  Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 

Php 3:16  Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

1Pe 3:8  Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 

Clearly, none of that applies to the varied groups that call themselves Christian.

Soj

[We_Are_VENOM]

Colossians 1:16-20 English Standard Version (ESV)
16 For by[a] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/1-16.htm

So Jesus is uncreated yeah?

I missed the part in the scriptures you provided which suggests that Jesus was created..

[Wootah]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #27]

In this case we are using logic of contradiction to deduce that Jesus is uncreated.

If all things are created by X then X was not created.

eg: X1 was created by X, therefore, X1 cannot be X.

Therefore: All created things cannot be X.

There is a thread that asks when Jesus was created you might like to post in.

viewtopic.php?p=1018559#p1018559

Remember you have to explain that Jesus was created but also not contradict Colossians where it says all things were created by Jesus.

edit: I think we both agree Jesus is God (I read some of your other posts).

[Eloi]

If Christ had not been created, then he could not be "first in all things."

Col. 1:17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him

Bible NEVER says Jesus was creator.

[DavidLeon]

[Replying to DavidLeon in post #11]

Did the heavens exist before Jesus?

DavidLeon - Did the heavens exist before Jesus?

No. Jehovah created Jesus, then Jesus, with Jehovah's holy spirit, created everything else. Including the heavens.

(Colossians 1:15; Revelation 1:1; 3:14)