If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

[Wootah]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

If you respond then Can I get an order of creation from you, like baking a Jesus cake: water, flour, Jesus, sugar, mix?

So you might start with God, then heaven, earth, birds, Jesus.

Any takers?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #89]

A cup is created. A cup is in the universe. We can talk about it just fine.

What is your evidence for either of these claims?

God created the universe.
Everything created is part of the universe.
Therefore if God created Jesus then Jesus is part of the universe.

It's just logic.

Except that,

A - Christ came before the universe, else how could God have created the universe THROUGH His Son

and

B - Christ is not a cup. He is a Son (the Son). He is a living being who was born. From God (and the womb of the spiritual realm "Sarah above" was IN God).


(and C, as a side point, I am not sure it has been demonstrated that everything created must be part of the universe... or... that a son, born from God, could not have been with God before the universe existed, just as it is written that He was)

I'll accept it when you can explain it without contradiction. Contradictions should affect our beliefs.

What is the contradiction with Christ being born from God, and then God creating everything through Christ?

Of course, Christ existed before the universe. We agree on that.

Yes.

What do you think firstborn means in the Bible? Be specific (I ask this not to be rude but to really get to the nuts and bolts of what you actually believe). Do you mean born like in pregnancy born? Do you think God gave birth to Jesus?

Yes, in a manner of speaking. Christ was born from God. He is the literal son of God.

A firstborn is also an heir... just as Christ is the heir of all God's creation. Everything was created for Christ (to inherit and to rule). Not just because He literally has the rights of the firstborn, but also because He has shown that He deserves this (having given His life not once, but twice - the first time to bring the world into being... rev 13:8, and the second time to ransom us from Death).


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #91]

God speaks and he creates that is my understanding of it. So I believed God created Jesus I would believe God spoke Jesus into existence.

Well let's be descriptive. How did God give birth to Jesus versus create the universe? Are you seriously getting biological on this?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #91]

God speaks and he creates that is my understanding of it. So I believed God created Jesus I would believe God spoke Jesus into existence.

Well let's be descriptive. How did God give birth to Jesus versus create the universe? Are you seriously getting biological on this?

I'm seriously just stating things that are already written. You are the one imposing conditions upon something that I doubt you (or I or any mere man) know enough about to be imposing conditions upon, to begin with.


Christ is the Son of God; He is the firstborn over all creation; He was with God (wherever God is/was)... and then God created the universe and everything else (other than His Son) through His Son.

God -> then Christ -> then everything else.


(and I have no problem with God speaking - Let there be Light - and Christ being born, coming into being)


You will also note that the verses I shared (Hebrews 1:2; 1Corinth 8:6) have God and His Son as two individual beings. Not "God the Father and God the Son". But God (one being) and the Son OF God (another being).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #93]

I know they are separate persons.

Hey surely you agree like reproduces like? Right ... ?

So if God gave birth to something what would that something be?

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to tam in post #93]

I know they are separate persons.

Hey surely you agree like reproduced like? Right ... ?

So if God gave birth to something what would that something be?

God is spirit, and he gives life to spirit.

(same as a human gives birth to a human)

Christ is also a spirit being, and the only begotten Son (of God). Everything and everyone else came into existence from God through Christ. But Christ came into being directly from God.

I assume (and could be wrong) that you are trying to say 'god from god', but I thought I asked you once if you were using the word 'god' to denote a 'species' (for lack of a better word); and you said no.

Humans give birth to humans (human is the species). But we are not all the same human.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #95]

Humans are animals but we produce humans not birds. God is a spirit but he produces after his own kind right?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #95]

Humans are animals but we produce humans not birds. God is a spirit but he produces after his own kind right?

Well that seems to follow, yes...

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #97]

So God produces God?

[tam]

[Replying to tam in post #97]

So God produces God?

Are you using God as a species then?

Because when a human produces a human, they are not the same human. Right?


Peace again to you.

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #97]

So God produces God?

Are you using God as a species then?

Because when a human produces a human, they are not the same human. Right?


Peace again to you.

No you have two humans. So what do you now have?