If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

[Wootah]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

If you respond then Can I get an order of creation from you, like baking a Jesus cake: water, flour, Jesus, sugar, mix?

So you might start with God, then heaven, earth, birds, Jesus.

Any takers?

[Checkpoint]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

If you respond then Can I get an order of creation from you, like baking a Jesus cake: water, flour, Jesus, sugar, mix?

So you might start with God, then heaven, earth, birds, Jesus.

Any takers?

I wonder why I am now answering your poser. Not sure whether I am thus a taker rather than a giver, though.

Not God, and therefore created? Is it really that simple or logical?

No, it seems to me!

You see, in my recent years I have supposedly "solved" this dilemma by putting together the four Gospels in a kind of Jesus cake.

I start as John does, with the Logos, the Word being both God and with God.

That Word then becomes what the Word was not, flesh, a human being, Jesus the Son of God and the Son of Man, by the Holy Spirit. As described in the other three Gospels.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #2]

And the word was God?

https://biblehub.com/text/john/1-1.htm

How do you interpret that?

How many uncreated beings exist for you?

For others that come to this thread (JWs) please ignore the discussion with Checkpoint and just start at the top.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Wootah in post #3]

And the word was God?

https://biblehub.com/text/john/1-1.htm

How do you interpret that?


How many uncreated beings exist for you?

Yes, was God, not is God, and yet also with[to,toward] God.

I interpret verse one as translated, but do not overlook the origin and prior use of "the Logos" by previous others. John adopted it and adapted it to becoming the promised Anointed One, as fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth.

Uncreated beings? I think there is only one of those. God alone is uncreated.

[tam]

Peace to you!

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

Well, Christ (Jaheshua) was born, brought forth from God, before all other things/beings. The firstborn of creation. Proverbs 8:22-31 seems to lay it out:

“[YHWH] brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26
before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27
I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28
when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29
when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30
Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31
rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

If you respond then Can I get an order of creation from you, like baking a Jesus cake: water, flour, Jesus, sugar, mix?

See above.

So you might start with God, then heaven, earth, birds, Jesus.

God (Jah) -> Christ (Jaheshua) -> everything else (including angels, the physical realm, animals, humans, etc) came from God through the Son (1Corinthians 8:6).





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #4]

How did the Word lose being God if it was God? Is that possible?

When was Jesus created then?

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #5]

If God created Jesus where was Jesus after being created?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to tam in post #5]

Tam, Proverbs 8 in general is about the blessings of true wisdom. This section begins with a personification of wisdom as a woman calling out in the streets (vv.1-3), followed by the very words of her appeal (vv.4-36). Her discourse consists of five main sections:

• an address (vv.4-5)

• a call to listen to her instruction and the grounds for doing so (vv.6-11)
  
  NOTE: The same wisdom that makes this invitation is the wisdom that was present with God when He created the world and established it as a coherent system, for Wisdom (personified) says, "I was daily His delight" (v.30, which can be cross-referenced with Proverbs 3:19-20 ["The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew."].

• a description of her righteous character and purposes (vv.12-21)

• a description of her diving origin and use (vv.22-31)

• and a concluding appeal that again addresses the "sons" and thus evokes all the preceding paternal appeals as integral to her instruction (vv.32-36)

As in Proverbs 1:20-33, Wisdom is personified as a great lady, which helps illustrate the central message of Proverbs: the origin, existence, and purpose of true wisdom are properly framed in relationship with the Yahweh -- the triune Jehovah God [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit], the One True God -- Himself, Who is the maker of heaven and earth. As a result, the realm of wisdom encompasses every aspect of life everywhere in creation.

This is not Christ Himself speaking. What has been troublesome for some through the centuries and even now is the misunderstanding of Proverbs 8:22 in particular, “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work..." the underlined word is properly translated from the Hebrew קָנָה (qanah). Other translations translate this Hebrew word inaccurately ("produced," or even "created"), often with the predisposition of denying the deity of Christ, as is the case with the New World Translation.

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #4]

How did the Word lose being God if it was God? Is that possible?

When was Jesus created then?

See Philippians 2:6-7, Mathew 1:18-21, and Luke 1:31-35.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #4]

How did the Word lose being God if it was God? Is that possible?

When was Jesus created then?

See Philippians 2:6-7, Mathew 1:18-21, and Luke 1:31-35.

So I am pretty sure we agree things existed before Jesus was born, so how do you interpret Col 1:16?

Col 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.