If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

[Wootah]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

If you respond then Can I get an order of creation from you, like baking a Jesus cake: water, flour, Jesus, sugar, mix?

So you might start with God, then heaven, earth, birds, Jesus.

Any takers?

[PinSeeker]

The scriptures state that the physical and spiritual bodies are mutually exclusive. The natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last for Christians...

Nope. That's merely your terribly mistaken take of them. I can see how it can be read that way, but that's just silly. If I build a house, and I say first came the wood frame and then came the roof and bricks, does that mean then that the house is just bricks and a roof and no longer has a wood frame? No, of course not; that's ridiculous. Such is the case with what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15. With regard specifically to what Paul says there, all that's needed is to remember Ezekiel's words from chapter 36 of his prophecy. Relaying God's words to the Israelites, he said:

"...And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules."

Obviously, God is talking about giving a very physical person spiritual life during his or her life here on earth -- and causing them to walk in His statutes whereas they previously had not. So you see, first is the natural (physical), and for those whom God chooses, at the appointed time, then comes the spiritual, just as Paul says.

Grace and and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

I assume you're asking, what month and year did god inseminate Mary.

Um, no, I don't think that's what Wootah is asking, Miles.

[Miles]

If Jesus is not God then: When was Jesus created?

I assume you're asking, what month and year did god inseminate Mary.

Um, no, I don't think that's what Wootah is asking, Miles.

Considering Wootah's qualification: If Jesus is not God then: what do you think he asking when he said, "When was Jesus created"?

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[Wootah]

[Replying to Miles in post #83]

Hi Miles - many believers in Jesus on this forum still do not regard him as God. This is examining when they think Jesus was created in the order of creation and if they can still be consistent with the Bible.

For instance, you could say he was born 2020 years ago and did not exist before then. But we have bible verses that say everything was created by him. So clearly he preexisted his birth at least.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #83]

Hi Miles - many believers in Jesus on this forum still do not regard him as God. This is examining when they think Jesus was created in the order of creation and if they can still be consistent with the Bible.

For instance, you could say he was born 2020 years ago and did not exist before then. But we have bible verses that say everything was created by him. So clearly he preexisted his birth at least.

So in light of the consideration of Jesus not being god how would those verses saying he created everything square with those verses that say god created everything?


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[PinSeeker]

[Replying to Miles in post #83]

Hi Miles - many believers in Jesus on this forum still do not regard him as God. This is examining when they think Jesus was created in the order of creation and if they can still be consistent with the Bible.

For instance, you could say he was born 2020 years ago and did not exist before then. But we have bible verses that say everything was created by him. So clearly he preexisted his birth at least.

So in light of the consideration of Jesus not being god how would those verses saying he created everything square with those verse that say god created everything?

Hopefully, they would prompt reconsideration of that "consideration."

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to Miles in post #83]

Hi Miles - many believers in Jesus on this forum still do not regard him as God. This is examining when they think Jesus was created in the order of creation and if they can still be consistent with the Bible.

For instance, you could say he was born 2020 years ago and did not exist before then. But we have bible verses that say everything was created by him. So clearly he preexisted his birth at least.

So in light of the consideration of Jesus not being god how would those verses saying he created everything square with those verse that say god created everything?

Hopefully, they would prompt reconsideration of that "consideration."

Are you guys referring to the verses that state everything was created by God, through Christ?

"...yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist." 1 Corinth 8:6

But in these last days He (God) has spoken to us by His Son, whom He (God) appointed heir of all things, and through whom He (God) made the universe. Hebrews 1:2



Peace again to you!

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #87]

Great you agree God created the universe (which means everything).

If Jesus was created then how can God create the universe through Jesus?

If God created Jesus before creating the universe then Jesus was the universe until the universe was expanded. All created things are necessarily part of the universe.

You mentioned a spirit realm previously (do you have a prefered Bible verse that shows this exists) - how many spirits are in it? Did God create them? What is the purpose of heaven if there is a preexisting spirit realm?

Did God create the spirit realm?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #87]

Great you agree God created the universe (which means everything).

That seems to be an arbitrary definition. How can the universe mean everything when we talk about things IN the universe?

If Jesus was created then how can God create the universe through Jesus?

Christ (Jaheshua) is a person, who existed with God (and was BORN from God), and then God created the universe through Christ.

Christ is the Light, yes?

Through that Light (Christ) God created everything else.

If God created Jesus before creating the universe then Jesus was the universe until the universe was expanded. All created things are necessarily part of the universe.

What is your evidence for either of these claims?

Christ clearly existed before the universe (since the universe is stated to have come from God through Christ)... and Christ was born from God (the first BORN), and then all other things came from God through Christ.

Why is that so hard to accept?


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #89]

A cup is created. A cup is in the universe. We can talk about it just fine.

What is your evidence for either of these claims?

God created the universe.
Everything created is part of the universe.
Therefore if God created Jesus then Jesus is part of the universe.

It's just logic.

I'll accept it when you can explain it without contradiction. Contradictions should affect our beliefs.

Of course, Christ existed before the universe. We agree on that.

What do you think firstborn means in the Bible? Be specific (I ask this not to be rude but to really get to the nuts and bolts of what you actually believe). Do you mean born like in pregnancy born? Do you think God gave birth to Jesus?