What defines a sin?

[Miles]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:

Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to Miles in post #28]

This all comes down to the definition of sin, which you believe to be ________________________ _____________________fill in the blank_____________________________________ .

1Jn_3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

According to the Bible, if one is so inclined.

So, I take it, you feel "a little white lie," "pocketing the accidental giving of the wrong change" "doing something out of turn," and snitching on your younger sister are transgressions of the law. Please cite this law.

Thank you.

.

Never mind, Soj, I'll do it for you!

"Thou shalt not bear false witness" and "thou shalt not steal" pretty much cover all you have cited. But "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," which together the whole Law and Prophets depend on (according to Jesus, the second Person if the triune Jehovah, in Matthew 22), cover all these things (and everything else sinful).

Grace and peace to you, Miles.

[Miles]

So, I take it, you feel "a little white lie," "pocketing the accidental giving of the wrong change" "doing something out of turn," and snitching on your younger sister are transgressions of the law. Please cite this law.

Thank you.

.

Never mind, Soj, I'll do it for you!

"Thou shalt not bear false witness" and "thou shalt not steal" pretty much cover all you have cited. But "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," which together the whole Law and Prophets depend on (according to Jesus, the second Person if the triune Jehovah, in Matthew 22), cover all these things (and everything else sinful).

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness, so I await the law that makes "a little white lie," which doesn't involve bearing false witness, a sin.* I do grant you that the injunction, "thou shalt not steal" might cover "pocketing the accidental giving of the wrong change." But I still await the law that makes "doing something out of turn," and "snitching on your younger sister" a sin.

1 out of 4 ain't all that teriffic PinSeeker. So, so much for "Never mind, Soj, I'll do it for you!"


* God's commandment against bearing false witness, Exodus 20:16, explicitly says whom this is in regards to, which is: "one's neighbor," or in some Bibles "other people" and "anyone." Nothing at all about a little white lie concerning you're grade on the math test, or a little white lie about how dad's car got dinged. Nope, bearing false witness (lying) in the bible only has to do with uttering falsehoods about one's neighbor or other people.

Exodus 20:16 KJV
16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

ERV
“You must not tell lies about other people."

Other Bibles put a finer point on it by expressing the commandment in Exodus 20:16 as

MSG
"No lies about your neighbor."

HCSB
"Do not give false testimony against your neighbor."

GNT
“Do not accuse anyone falsely."

GW
“Never lie when you testify about your neighbor."

NCV
“You must not tell lies about your neighbor."

EXB
“You must not ·tell lies about [bear false witness against] your neighbor."

(My emphases)



.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to Miles in post #32]

Good Afternoon Miles,

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness at all

What kind of witness does not bear the truth?

Soj

[PinSeeker]

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness.

I'm aware that that's a ridiculous statement, and thus untrue. Are you bearing false witness -- lying as it were -- here? Or...

Grace and peace to you.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #32]

Good Afternoon Miles,

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness at all

What kind of witness does not bear the truth?

A false witness; however, the Bible isn't talking about just any kind of false witnessing, but the kind that god made a commandment against, which is, "Bearing false witness against "thy neighbour," "other people," and "anyone." All of which can exonerate telling "a little white lie" from being a sin.


.

[Miles]

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness.

I'm aware that that's a ridiculous statement, and thus untrue. Are you bearing false witness -- lying as it were -- here? Or...

See my reply above to Sojourneroftheearth. If you don't understand, perhaps he will explain it to you.

.

[PinSeeker]

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness.

I'm aware that that's a ridiculous statement, and thus untrue. Are you bearing false witness -- lying as it were -- here? Or...

See my reply above to Sojourneroftheearth. If you don't understand, perhaps he will explain it to you.

Oh, yeah, I see it, and I understand. But you are applying very much false limits. Whether this is intentional or not is unclear, but it is what it is.

Grace and peace to you.

[Miles]

You are aware, are you not, that "a little white lie" need not involve bearing false witness.

I'm aware that that's a ridiculous statement, and thus untrue. Are you bearing false witness -- lying as it were -- here? Or...

See my reply above to Sojourneroftheearth. If you don't understand, perhaps he will explain it to you.

Oh, yeah, I see it, and I understand. But you are applying very much false limits. Whether this is intentional or not is unclear, but it is what it is.

Grace and peace to you.

"False limits"? The only admissible limits are those set by the commandments themselves. What right does anyone, Christian or otherwise, have to expand on god's commandments? He set the limits of his commandments by the way in which he expressed them. If he intended there be "howevers," " except fors" or some other qualifying condition don't you think he would have said so? Of course he would, so to believe anyone has the right to expand the limits of his conditions is hubris at its worse.

As I said, God's use of "bearing false witness" ONLY applies to "one's neighbor," or in some Bibles, "other people" and "anyone," and not a thing more.

.

[PinSeeker]

"False limits"? The only admissible limits are those set by the commandments themselves.

The commandments set no limits. Actually, they really are much farther reaching than it may seem at face value; this is what Jesus taught with all His "You have heard it said... but I tell you..." statements. But you are setting false limits. Sojourner agrees with me on this. That's the point.

What right does anyone, Christian or otherwise, have to expand on god's commandments?

The question is, why are you setting limits when there are none?

If he intended there be "howevers," " except fors" or some other qualifying condition don't you think he would have said so? Of course he would, so to believe anyone has the right to expand the limits of his conditions is hubris at its worst.

I agree. So again, why are you setting false limits?

As I said, God's use of "bearing false witness" ONLY applies to "one's neighbor," or in some Bibles, "other people" and "anyone," and not a thing more.

I agree. But that's not what I'm talking about. A "little white lie" is still, in any valid analysis, bearing false witness -- lying -- and a violation of Commandment 9.

Grace and peace to you.

[Miles]

"False limits"? The only admissible limits are those set by the commandments themselves.

The commandments set no limits. Actually, they really are much farther reaching than it may seem at face value; this is what Jesus taught with all His "You have heard it said... but I tell you..." statements. But you are setting false limits. Sojourner agrees with me on this. That's the point.

G o o d ..g r i e f ..


..................Have a good day

.