What defines a sin?

[Miles]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:

Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

[Checkpoint]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:

Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

Yes, they are sins that bring death.

The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23.

[Miles]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:

Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

Yes, they are sins that bring death.

The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23.

I'm curious. What are the criteria that make an act a sin?

.

[Sojournerofthearth]

Sin is only against God.

For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. (Psalms 51:3-4 KJV)

Simply defined, sin is the breaking of God's law.

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 

So whatever is outside of what the law permits, that is sin.

Rom 4:15  For what law brings is punishment. But where there is no law, there is also no violation

It's really simply explained. Living it is more challenging...

Soj

[Miles]

Simply defined, sin is the breaking of God's law.

In regard to the first case I presented, I don't believe god ever said "It is against the law for a man to lie with a man as one lies with woman." So lacking such a definite statement as, "It is against the law," how does one establish an act to be breaking god's law and therefore a sin? Or doesn't one do that? Such behavior, although warranting a death sentence from god, never rise to the level of sin.

But if it does, in as much as there are a lot of things god doesn't care for, but has not announced a formal law against, what does it take? God's dislike of X? God's distaste of X? God's annoyance with X? God's displeasure with X? God's animosity ward X? God's scorn of X? God's hatred of X? God's abhorrence of X? God's hostility toward X? God's. . . .what?. . . . toward X

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 

So whatever is outside of what the law permits, that is sin.

Fine. So because no law was ever established banning men lying with other men as they lie with women, doing so isn't committing a sin. That about it?

It's really simply explained.

So it is. In effect, one need not commit a sin in order to bring god's death sentence down upon himself.

.

[onewithhim]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:

Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

You said in your first paragraph that God doesn't consider homosexuality a sin. Yet he does. It is quite clear. It is also clear with the events concerning Aaron's sons, cursing one's mother and father, etc. Anything that God states NOT to do, and someone does it, knowing that he is going against God, it's a sin. It is a deliberate, willful rebellion against God.

[Miles]

.

Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:


Leviticus 20:13
If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

(Although the vast majority of bibles, 90%, don't call this, and the examples that follow, a "sin," a few modern Bibles, those published in the last 17 years, have decided it is.)



AND cursing ones father or mother

Leviticus 20:9
For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.



AND refusing to obey god

Leviticus 26: 14-17
14 “But if you don’t obey me and all my commands, bad things will happen to you. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands, you have broken my agreement. 16 If you do that, I will cause terrible things to happen to you. I will cause you to have disease and fever. They will destroy your eyes and take away your life. You will not have success when you plant your seed. And your enemies will eat your crops. 17 I will be against you, so your enemies will defeat you. These enemies will hate you and rule over you. You will run away even when no one is chasing you.



AND making a mistake

Leviticus 10:1-2
10 Then Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu made a mistake. They took their incense dishes and put some fire and incense in them. But they did not use the fire that was on the altar—they took fire from some other place and brought it to the Lord. This was not what he had commanded. 2 So fire came from the Lord and destroyed Nadab and Abihu, and they died there in front of the Lord.



AND going into a forbidden room

Leviticus 16: 1-2
Two of Aaron’s sons died while offering incense to the Lord. After that time, the Lord spoke to Moses. 2 The Lord said, “Talk to your brother Aaron. Tell him that he cannot go behind the curtain into the Most Holy Place anytime he wants to. The mercy-cover is in the room behind that curtain on top of the Holy Box, and I appear in a cloud over that mercy-cover. If Aaron goes into that room, he will die!


So, are these sins or not?

You said in your first paragraph that God doesn't consider homosexuality a sin.

No I Did Not. My first paragraph said:

"Sin is commonly considered to be a transgression against divine law, but what about those activities god abhors but does not actually label "sin"? Specifically, I'm thinking about men having sex with other men, as in:"

Thing is, it isn't homosexuality, the attraction to those of the same sex, that god is against, but two men engaging in sex with each other. You know, like in Leviticus 20:13 where he defines the offense as: "having sex with another man as with a woman."

Secondly, I fail to find any verse in the Bible that says homosexual sex is a sin. Of course, if you've found one please share.

Yet he does [consider homosexual sex a sin]. It is quite clear. It is also clear with the events concerning Aaron's sons, cursing one's mother and father, etc. Anything that God states NOT to do, and someone does it, knowing that he is going against God, it's a sin. It is a deliberate, willful rebellion against God.

Fine. All you have to do is present the chapter and verse. I await.

Fine. I await your evidence that this claim is true, preferably some kind of chapter and verse. (By the by, I assume you don't wear "clothing woven from two different kinds of thread" for fear of sinning. Or would ever "plant your field with two different kinds of seed." for fear of sinning. OR "show special favor to the poor" for fear of sinning. OR "cut your beard that grows on the side of your face" for fear of sinning. OR fail to "stand up when [old people] come into the room," for fear of sinning)

.

[onewithhim]

You are right. God wouldn't condemn someone who had homosexual tendencies and yet never carried through on those feelings. It is true....the ACT of homosexuality is what God finds repulsive. There are several scriptures that condemn the homosexual act, besides the one you refer to in Leviticus.

"Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them...God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature, and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene..." (Romans 1:24,26,27)


"What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's Kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor men who lie with men, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's Kingdom." (I Corinthians 6:9,10)


There are more. I think these suffice to show God's position on the homosexual act.

[Miles]

You are right. God wouldn't condemn someone who had homosexual tendencies and yet never carried through on those feelings. It is true....the ACT of homosexuality is what God finds repulsive. There are several scriptures that condemn the homosexual act, besides the one you refer to in Leviticus.

"Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them...God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature, and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene..." (Romans 1:24,26,27)


"What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's Kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor men who lie with men, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's Kingdom." (I Corinthians 6:9,10)


There are more. I think these suffice to show God's position on the homosexual act.

Although god really hates homosexual sex, obviously putting it at the far end of his scale of things he doesn't care for, lacking any evidence from you that he considers it to be an actual sin, I'm concluding that you agree he doesn't consider it such. In god's eyes it's just something that's really, really, R E A L L Y bad, but doesn't rise to the level of sin.

..

[Overcomer]

Sin is anything that separates us from God.