"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

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Miles
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"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

The disciple whom Jesus loved is referred to, specifically, six times in the book of John.


John 13:23-25
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

__________________________

John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

__________________________

John 20:1-2

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

__________________________

John 21: 7
7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was
naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

__________________________

John 21: 20-23
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

__________________________

John 21: 24
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.


As for which disciple Jesus was in love with, in the Wikipdia article: "Disciple whom Jesus loved"; the main candidate is none other than John himself

"Some scholars have additionally suggested a homoerotic interpretation of Christ's relationship with the Beloved Disciple, although such a scriptural reading is disputed . . . . Tilborg suggests that the portrait in the Gospel of John is "positively attuned to the development of possibly homosexual behaviour". . . .

The relationship between Christ and John was certainly interpreted by some as being of a physical erotic nature as early as the 16th century (albeit in a "heretical" context) - documented, for example, in the trial for blasphemy of Christopher Marlowe, who was accused of claiming that "St. John the Evangelist was bedfellow to Christ and leaned always in his bosom, that he used him as the sinners of Sodoma". In accusing Marlowe of the "sinful nature" of homosexual acts, James I of England inevitably invited comparisons to his own erotic relationship with the Duke of Buckingham which he also compared to that of the Beloved Disciple. Finally, Francesco Calcagno, a friar of Venicefaced trial and was executed in 1550 for claiming that "St. John was Christ's catamite".

Dynes also makes a link to the modern day where in 1970s New York a popular religious group was established called the "Church of the Beloved Disciple", with the intention of giving a positive reading of the relationship to support respect for same-sex love."


However, based on John 11:5: "Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus", and John 11:3 "Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." some scholars feel Lazarus of Bethany is a better candidate,

Others, through a bit of tap dancing, have proposed that the beloved disciple was originally Mary Magdalene

Or, Jesus's beloved disciple may have been "a priestly member of a quasimonastic, mystical, and ascetic Jewish aristocracy, located on Jerusalem's prestigious southwest hill, who had hosted Jesus' last supper in that location"

Whatever the case, none of these scholars seem to have denied a homosexual connection with the Beloved Disciple. Even today there are those who believe Jesus was gay.




"Was Jesus gay? Probably"
.............by Paul Oestreicher

I preached on Good Friday that Jesus's intimacy with John suggested he was gay as I felt deeply it had to be addressed.

Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi. Unusually, he was unmarried. The idea that he had a romantic relationship with Mary Magdalene is the stuff of fiction, based on no biblical evidence. The evidence, on the other hand, that he may have been what we today call gay is very strong. But even gay rights campaigners in the church have been reluctant to suggest it. A significant exception was Hugh Montefiore, bishop of Birmingham and a convert from a prominent Jewish family. He dared to suggest that possibility and was met with disdain, as though he were simply out to shock.

After much reflection and with certainly no wish to shock, I felt I was left with no option but to suggest, for the first time in half a century of my Anglican priesthood, that Jesus may well have been homosexual. Had he been devoid of sexuality, he would not have been truly human. To believe that would be heretical.
source


SO, what do you, members of Debating Christianity and Religion, think? Jesus: likely gay or not?


.

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #71

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men. His being unmarried. At least according to the modern bible.
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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #72

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men.
But does the gospel really indicate Jesus lacked female companionship?


LUKE 8:1-3

Shortly afterward he traveled from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God.+ And the Twelve were with him, 2 as were certain women who had been cured of wicked spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magʹda·lene,+ from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Jo·anʹna+ the wife of Chuʹza, Herod’s man in charge; Su·sanʹna; and many other women, who were ministering to them from their belongings.+

The fact of the matter is, as prortayed in the gospel, Jesus broke with the conventions of his time by associating with women as much as he did . He not only deemed them worthy of his time, he publically taught them scripture and as the passage above indicates, a significant number of women toured with him full time. That these women were not merely there to cater to the needs of the men is indicated by the exchanges his recorded as having with women, (contrary to the teachers of higher religious instruction of his day who deemed women intellecually ill equiped for learning scripture). Interestingly, women as well as men went on to become targets of Saul of Tarsus' attempt to stop the movement, arguably indicating the role these early female disciples would play in the development of Christianity.

In and case, Jesus not only welcomed women into his company, he evidently cultivated close frienships with them. In first century Jewish society the sexes were firmly divided and respectable men (much less a Rabbi) dis not associate with women outside their immediate family. Actually one rabonnical rule stated that that a husband was not to walk behind his wife; nor should he converse with her in the marketplace.

To suggest that the Jesus of the gospel "Jesus lacked female companionship" is a gross misrepresent the text. To go so far as to suggest any limitations that did exist should be interpreted as being indicative of homosexual leanings, not only shows an ignorance of what homosexuality is (gay men and women are no more or less likely to enjoy platonic relationships with members the opposite sex than hetrosexuals) but ignores the very real social constraints of the day.





RELATED POSTS

Was Jesus gay because he eat to close to John? (John 21;20)
viewtopic.php?p=768477#p768477

Do references to Jesus particular "love" for one of his disciples indicate homosexuality?
viewtopic.php?p=1020158#p1020158
To learn more please go to other posts related to

"BAD JESUS", SIN and ... HOMOSEXUALITY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 7 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Romans 14:8

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #73

Post by 2timothy316 »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men. His being unmarried. At least according to the modern bible.
Hello welcome to the forums!
The statement above is called an Association fallacy.

Example: John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

There is no evidence that because a male or female keeps more close friends of the same sex and not married must be gay.

In stricter states of Islam, males and females do not socialize with members of the opposite sex. This rule doesn't make all Islamic people gay.

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #74

Post by Purple Knight »

Overcomer wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:57 pm Given that God condemned homosexuality as a sin and that Jesus was God Incarnate, then no, there's no way that Jesus was gay.
I don't see that as a problem, as he condemned it for people (specifically men) not himself.

I do agree though that physical closeness between males and whether that is evidence of homosexuality is heavily dependent upon the culture. I can't begin to speculate on what was normal for ancient Hebrew culture but I do know that what, to me, is supernova-level flaming, is perfectly normal for perfectly straight Italian males.

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #75

Post by nobspeople »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:12 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men. His being unmarried. At least according to the modern bible.
Hello welcome to the forums!
The statement above is called an Association fallacy.

Example: John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

There is no evidence that because a male or female keeps more close friends of the same sex and not married must be gay.

In stricter states of Islam, males and females do not socialize with members of the opposite sex. This rule doesn't make all Islamic people gay.
Thanks for the welcome.
And no, it doesn't make all Islamic people gay. But that doesn't make them straight either. Questioning, in of itself, doesn't make those people 'this or that', of course.
Point is, where there's the ability to doubt/question, people do.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #76

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:36 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men.
But does the gospel really indicate Jesus lacked female companionship?


LUKE 8:1-3

Shortly afterward he traveled from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the Kingdom of God.+ And the Twelve were with him, 2 as were certain women who had been cured of wicked spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magʹda·lene,+ from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Jo·anʹna+ the wife of Chuʹza, Herod’s man in charge; Su·sanʹna; and many other women, who were ministering to them from their belongings.+

The fact of the matter is, as prortayed in the gospel, Jesus broke with the conventions of his time by associating with women as much as he did . He not only deemed them worthy of his time, he publically taught them scripture and as the passage above indicates, a significant number of women toured with him full time. That these women were not merely there to cater to the needs of the men is indicated by the exchanges his recorded as having with women, (contrary to the teachers of higher religious instruction of his day who deemed women intellecually ill equiped for learning scripture). Interestingly, women as well as men went on to become targets of Saul of Tarsus' attempt to stop the movement, arguably indicating the role these early female disciples would play in the development of Christianity.

In and case, Jesus not only welcomed women into his company, he evidently cultivated close frienships with them. In first century Jewish society the sexes were firmly divided and respectable men (much less a Rabbi) dis not associate with women outside their immediate family. Actually one rabonnical rule stated that that a husband was not to walk behind his wife; nor should he converse with her in the marketplace.

To suggest that the Jesus of the gospel "Jesus lacked female companionship" is a gross misrepresent the text. To go so far as to suggest any limitations that did exist should be interpreted as being indicative of homosexual leanings, not only shows an ignorance of what homosexuality is (gay men and women are no more or less likely to enjoy platonic relationships with members the opposite sex than hetrosexuals) but ignores the very real social constraints of the day.





RELATED POSTS

Was Jesus gay because he eat to close to John? (John 21;20)
viewtopic.php?p=768477#p768477

Do references to Jesus particular "love" for one of his disciples indicate homosexuality?
viewtopic.php?p=1020158#p1020158
To learn more please go to other posts related to

"BAD JESUS", SIN and ... HOMOSEXUALITY

Poorly worded on my part.
By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #77

Post by 2timothy316 »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:41 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:12 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men. His being unmarried. At least according to the modern bible.
Hello welcome to the forums!
The statement above is called an Association fallacy.

Example: John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

There is no evidence that because a male or female keeps more close friends of the same sex and not married must be gay.

In stricter states of Islam, males and females do not socialize with members of the opposite sex. This rule doesn't make all Islamic people gay.
Thanks for the welcome.
And no, it doesn't make all Islamic people gay. But that doesn't make them straight either. Questioning, in of itself, doesn't make those people 'this or that', of course.
Point is, where there's the ability to doubt/question, people do.
This is how red herrings come about. That is the purpose of a red herring, to make people doubt or distract from truth. Declaring Jesus gay and quickly believing it with no or little evidence is called credulity. Either of these things do we want to be known for do we? Saying things just to make people doubt or believing things with little or no evidence is not good, right?

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #78

Post by nobspeople »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:07 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:41 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:12 pm
nobspeople wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:30 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #70]

His lack of female companionship combined with his association with a lot of men. His being unmarried. At least according to the modern bible.
Hello welcome to the forums!
The statement above is called an Association fallacy.

Example: John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

There is no evidence that because a male or female keeps more close friends of the same sex and not married must be gay.

In stricter states of Islam, males and females do not socialize with members of the opposite sex. This rule doesn't make all Islamic people gay.
Thanks for the welcome.
And no, it doesn't make all Islamic people gay. But that doesn't make them straight either. Questioning, in of itself, doesn't make those people 'this or that', of course.
Point is, where there's the ability to doubt/question, people do.
This is how red herrings come about. That is the purpose of a red herring, to make people doubt or distract from truth. Declaring Jesus gay and quickly believing it with no or little evidence is called credulity. Either of these things do we want to be known for do we? Saying things just to make people doubt or believing things with little or no evidence is not good, right?
Rather or not declaring him gay causes harm is, for me, immaterial (and debatable across the grand scheme of things - I'm sure there's a thread someone on here to discuss if saying he's gay is a good or bad thing). Though some people have said he's gay (or not) I won't and will never make such a claim. Succinctly, I've said 'it's possible', from my perspective. Which, if we're being honest with ourselves, would be the thing we should all say. None of us know, for sure, anything definite about him outside of what we were told by others. There are written accounts some of us have no access to read. Some of those stories are less than flattering, canon or no. And those that we do have to read, are stories. We can choose to believe it or not, but fact is, the gospels are stories.
Those who refuse to say 'it's possible he is or isn't gay' (which is different than saying 'I believe he is or isn't gay'), are self assured to the point of being arrogant IMO.
Was he gay?
We don't know.
We can only have opinions about it. What those opinions cause in the long run isn't what this thread is about.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #79

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Romans 14:8

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Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #80

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



JW
Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture. Of course, there are writings of him being married that aren't cannon so there's that issue as well.
This is all assuming, of course, he's a real man. If someone believes he was a man but also more than a man, it might change their mind.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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